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  1. #11
    Prophet Guest

    Re: Moss, greatest of all time?

    Good comments. I was for the Moss trade due to his attitude. If he ever does turn the corner he has the possibility of surpassing Rice. As he gets older he'll have to compensate for his fading athleticism by capitalizing on his knowledge and experience and improve his attitude and work ethic.

    I don't see him doing that, but I hope he does get it together and perform for many years to come, it has been a joy so far to watch him make some spectacular plays.

    My biggest gripe about him being in Oakland is that the hurler is Kerry Collins. I dislike few NFL players as much as that wuss. I hate to see his numbers inflated by the combination of Porter and Moss.

  2. #12
    PurplePackerEater is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Moss, greatest of all time?

    [align=center][size=18px]Greatest of all time?[/size]
    Most won't like it, but Moss has shot to be best ever
    [/align]
    [align=center]By: Andrew Perloff[/align]
    Randy Moss may go down in history as the greatest wide receiver ever to play in the NFL.

    Looks funny in print, eh? Kind of makes your skin crawl. And yes, it is a very premature statement. But there's reason to be scared, because someday it might be true.

    Right now, the title of best receiver of all time belongs to Jerry Rice. The receivers section of the NFL record book is an homage to him. You could argue Packers legend Don Hutson was more dominant in his era, but he played in the 1930s and '40s, when receivers had less impact on the game.

    Early in Moss' career, he and Rice often were mentioned in the same breath. The league never had seen a display by a rookie receiver like the season Moss put together in '98. He caught 69 passes for 1,313 yards, with a league-high 17 touchdowns -- many of which were spectacular.

    But the last few years haven't been kind to Moss' reputation. In addition to plenty of off-the-field problems, Moss said in 2001 that he took some plays off, and his status in the public's eye plummeted. Since that time, the Vikings have fallen from an elite team to a middle-of-the-road one.

    When you look at the numbers, however, Moss really hasn't fallen at all. When healthy (he battled a hamstring injury last season), Moss has maintained a statistical level of excellence that is rivaled only by Rice. Moss joins the Raiders for his eighth NFL season with 9,142 receiving yards and 90 TDs, nearly identical to Rice's 9,072 receiving yards and 93 TDs at that point in his career.

    But even if Moss sustains that production, there are a few reasons most observers never will declare he is better. First, Rice's Super Bowl performances are in a class by themselves. He captured the MVP in Super Bowl XXIV and was equally brilliant for the Niners in two other Super Bowls. Moss' Vikings fell short of the Super Bowl in '98 and never came close again. And even with Moss aboard, the Raiders don't appear destined to play in the big game any soon.

    Secondly, Rice (who we're assuming will retire this offseason) maintained a Hank Aaron-like consistency deep into his career, in large part because of his fitness and ability to avoid serious injuries. Can you see Moss playing into his 40s? Although Moss is a workout freak, he doesn't seem to have that kind of passion.

    In the end, the biggest reason Moss will never rival Rice in most experts' eyes is the character issue. In addition to Moss' legal troubles, there isn't a reporter who has covered him, nor a team or league official who has been around him, who doesn't have at least one story about how antisocial Moss can be.

    But history's not going to care about Moss' antics. After all the reporters who dislike him (they do, even if they won't admit it) leave the business, all that will remain is the record book and the NFL Films highlights, where Moss does things no other receiver can dream of.
    If people could separate the player from the person, it'd be easier to appreciate Moss' place in history. Even in an era in which passing records seem to fall every season and several receivers are on their way toward surpassing the numbers of past generations, Moss stands above the rest. Check out his numbers through seven years, compared to today's most productive receivers:

    [align=center]Elite NFL Receivers Through Seven Years
    Player Catches Yards Touchdowns Average
    Randy Moss 574 9,142 90 15.9
    Marvin Harrison 665 8,800 73 13.2
    Torry Holt 517 8,156 45 15.8*
    Terrell Owens 512 7,470 72 14.5
    Keyshawn Johnson 558 7,356 45 13.1
    Isaac Bruce 476 7,299 50 15.3
    Eric Moulds 383 6,457 38 16.8
    Rod Smith 470 6,756 44 14.3

    *Through six seasons [/align]


    Although Terrell Owens claims he's as good as Moss, the numbers don't support that argument. The player closest to Moss' overall production is Torry Holt. But Holt doesn't get into the end zone like Moss does. In fact, no one catches touchdowns like Moss. The all-time record-holder, Rice, caught 197 in 20 years. Moss is almost halfway there in seven years -- good enough to make him eighth on the all-time list.

    Any argument about a receiver's merit has to include a look at the system in which he played. Rice was part of one of the most prolific attacks in NFL history, which contributed to his success because opposing defenses had other things to worry about. The other side of that coin is that Rice had to share the ball with players such as John Taylor, Roger Craig and Owens.

    It's also worth noting that as a rookie, Rice joined an offensive juggernaut that was coming off a steamrolling of Miami in Super Bowl XIX. Conversely, Moss' presence on offense made an immediate impact: Dennis Green's Vikes set a league record by scoring 556 points in Moss' rookie season, an eye-popping 202 more than they did the previous year.

    Despite some of the negative comments from Daunte Culpepper about Moss this offseason, there's no better friend to a quarterback than No. 18 (Moss switched his jersey number because Jerry Porter has No. 84 in Oakland). Both Randall Cunningham and Jeff George experienced miraculous comebacks with the Vikings, and Culpepper wasn't the same QB last season after Moss got hurt in Week 7.

    If you throw the numbers out and just go by what you see on the field, Moss has to be considered the best WR today. He's big and physical, like Owens, but has speed closer to a Marvin Harrison or Holt. No one can catch the deep ball like Moss, and he's as good in a crowd as anyone in history -- especially if the ball is up in the air.

    When draft experts looked at the Vikings' No. 7 spot and talked about finding Moss' replacement, they were kidding themselves. There isn't another receiver who can do the things Moss can. There may be a couple of young guys with that kind of speed and size -- Detroit's Roy Williams, Houston's Andre Johnson, maybe rookies Braylon Edwards (Cleveland) or Troy Williamson (Minnesota) -- but those measurements don't translate to playmaking ability.

    There are plenty of questions about Moss' future. Can he remain focused and thrive in Oakland? Was last season the beginning of a series of injuries? What will he do next to get in trouble off the field?

    It's not always easy, but let's take a positive spin on Moss and assume the rest of his career will be fruitful. Twenty years after he retires, no one's going to remember the unpleasant details -- the chaotic college days, the failed drug tests, the arrest, the rude comments. All that will remain are the numbers and the highlights. And those are going to be pretty good. Maybe the best of all time.

  3. #13
    ultravikingfan's Avatar
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    Re: Moss, greatest of all time?

    Cris Carter; the greatest in my book!


  4. #14
    akvikefan89 is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Moss, greatest of all time?

    "ultravikingfan" wrote:
    Cris Carter; the greatest in my book!

    He's right up there

  5. #15
    PurplePackerEater is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Moss, greatest of all time?

    "ultravikingfan" wrote:
    Cris Carter; the greatest in my book!

    He was definitly GREAT. It was sad to see him burn out in Miami.

    Carter and Moss was one heck of a pair, none better! IMO of course.

  6. #16
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    Re: Moss, greatest of all time?

    Moss is the most talented WR ever, however I don't think he will play as long as Rice has and won't put up similar stats. Even so, stats aren't everything.

    Do any of you see Moss playing ANOTHER 7 years like his past seven. Because that is what it would take to even get close to Rice's numbers.


    I m like a Ja Rule poster, cause I'm off the wall.

  7. #17
    PurplePackerEater is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Moss, greatest of all time?

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    Moss is the most talented WR ever, however I don't think he will play as long as Rice has and won't put up similar stats. Even so, stats aren't everything.

    Do any of you see Moss playing ANOTHER 7 years like his past seven. Because that is what it would take to even get close to Rice's numbers.
    I do.

    Lets keep pisssing him off so that he has the ambition. :lol:

  8. #18
    SKOL's Avatar
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    Re: Moss, greatest of all time?

    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    "SKOL" - I have to touch on this as well. What in the world makes you believe that Moss is not "dedicated"? The guy works as hard as anyone on the team. Moss has even questioned his teammates dedication. After a loss, his teammates would just talk about what club they're going to that evening.
    I guess I'd better touch on this as well. I see where you're coming from, but we'll probably just have to agree to disagree.

    Dedication is defined as "Wholly committed to a particular course of thought or action". To me this would mean a player gives everything he's got, at all times.

    You can't take plays off and be fully committed.

    The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good -Samuel Johnson - lexicographer
    The word genius isn t applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein - Joe Theisman

  9. #19
    ultravikingfan's Avatar
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    Re: Moss, greatest of all time?

    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    "ultravikingfan" wrote:
    Cris Carter; the greatest in my book!

    He was definitly GREAT. It was sad to see him burn out in Miami.

    Carter and Moss was one heck of a pair, none better! IMO of course.
    I would not consider it a "burn out". He just hopped on in hopes of helping them get a ring. He only played in 5 games and was not their #1 or #2.

  10. #20
    muchluv4smoot's Avatar
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    Re: Moss, greatest of all time?

    Moss=Most talented WR of all time

    Rice=Greatest WR of all time

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