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  1. #11
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Mangini and Browns following Belichick blueprint

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=51233.msg928216#msg928216 date=1238327985]
    Scott Pioli was the vice president of player personnel in New England for nine years and the man charged with finding those specific players for Belichick.
    Interesting concept huh?
    VP of PP finds the player the coaches need/want......... :
    I really hope you aren't honestly comparing Spielman and Childress to Belichik and Pioli. If so you really need to see an optometrist.
    You know, this is probably the lamest attempt used by people on here to try to make thier point.....

    "Your not really trying to compare ours to thiers....."

    Seriously, thats the best you got?


    Lets try to take the grown up approach and actually look at/compare the process and procedures being followed by both staffs (not just the two/four chuckleheads you limit your lame response to) and see if maybe, just maybe there is some sort of similiarity...... :

    Come back to me after you do that.
    I will be back from the eye doc by then.

    ;D
    OK, Humor me then.

    Lets start with the QB position.

    They had a very good QB when they took over but knew that the QB was the most important position on the field so they drafted this one guy in the 6th round to develop. When he became the starter due to injury, they redid the offense to play to his strength and that led to a SB victory. When that QB went down last year they insertd a guy who hadn't started a game since HS and went on to an 11-5 record by once again changing the offense to adjust to his capabilities.

    OTOH we have spent 3 seasons fricken around with the position and trying to plug either sub par talent or to take talent with potential and asking them to do things they are not built to do well.

    I could go on but if that isn't enough for you to absorb then any more would be lost in translation.
    OK, if we must dwell on specifics, instead of the process we can.
    Such a shame though as the article is really good about laying that process out.


    Yes this staff seems to suck at fixing the QB position.
    Wow, I feel better now that I've got that off my chest for the umpteenthbazillion time.... ;D
    OK

    Lets look at the process.

    How are they similar?
    The Pats would see a player that they liked and would then bring them in and adjust the system to take advantage of their strengths. Heck, they even took a WR and converted them to play in the defensive secondary and went on to win a SB.

    OTOH we need to find a player with a specific skill set and it still takes 1.5 to 2 years to get them to adjust to the way the coaches want things instead of just reworking the system to make the player more successful.


    Here is a paragraph from the bio of Pioli on the Pats website:
    http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=MgersandExecsbio&bio=12539
    Once Pioli and Belichick arrived in New England in 2000, it took the pair just two seasons to rebuild the foundation of the team. Since orchestrating the franchise's first Super Bowl victory following the 2001 season, Pioli and Belichick have produced consistently solid results, becoming the only personnel director/head coach tandem in NFL history to win three Super Bowls in a four-year span (2001-04). The Patriots are the only NFL team to win at least one playoff game in each of the last five seasons (2003-07) and are the only team in the league to win nine or more games in each of the last seven seasons (2001-07

    There is nothing in common between the two. They are worlds apart.


    [/quote]
    You seriously think that they change thier scheme for a player or two.
    WOW.

    Anyway, maybe you need to re-read the article as I think you missed the whole point of it.

    Instead, Belichick looks for quality depth, knowing the starting 22 would never play 16 games without leaving the field.
    Doesn't sound like the type of player(s) you change a scheme for..... :

    The 10 free agents signed by the Browns fit that Patriots "plug a hole" philosophy.
    Doesn't sound like the type of player(s) you change a scheme for..... :

    Scott Pioli was the vice president of player personnel in New England for nine years and the man charged with finding those specific players for Belichick.
    Doesn't sound like the type of player(s) you change a scheme for..... :

    Seriously, why would you bring in role players to round out the predominance of your roster and then change a scheme for it.

    Again, I think you missed the whole concept of the article just to say you hate the Chiller.
    Guess what, almost all of us agree with you on that.

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #12
    marstc09's Avatar
    marstc09 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Mangini and Browns following Belichick blueprint

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    Using Marrdro's train of thought: I think Spielmann is doing a great job... but Childress doesn't know how to utilize the talent Spielmann finds.
    Finally, someone who gets the big picture.

    ;D
    [size=12pt]A Fan's Letter To Minnesota Vikings' Rick Spielman[/size]

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/146599-minnesota-vikings-a-fans-letter-to-rick-spielman/poll_results#poll

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Mangini and Browns following Belichick blueprint

    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    Using Marrdro's train of thought: I think Spielmann is doing a great job... but Childress doesn't know how to utilize the talent Spielmann finds.
    Finally, someone who gets the big picture.

    ;D
    [size=12pt]A Fan's Letter To Minnesota Vikings' Rick Spielman[/size]

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/146599-minnesota-vikings-a-fans-letter-to-rick-spielman/poll_results#poll
    I wonder if this will get picked up nationally and how many other "Fan Letters" will be written if it does?
    :
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #14
    marstc09's Avatar
    marstc09 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Mangini and Browns following Belichick blueprint

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    Using Marrdro's train of thought: I think Spielmann is doing a great job... but Childress doesn't know how to utilize the talent Spielmann finds.
    Finally, someone who gets the big picture.

    ;D
    [size=12pt]A Fan's Letter To Minnesota Vikings' Rick Spielman[/size]

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/146599-minnesota-vikings-a-fans-letter-to-rick-spielman/poll_results#poll
    I wonder if this will get picked up nationally and how many other "Fan Letters" will be written if it does?
    :
    Who cares this is a small market team.

  5. #15
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Mangini and Browns following Belichick blueprint

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=51233.msg928229#msg928229 date=1238335376]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=51233.msg928216#msg928216 date=1238327985]
    Scott Pioli was the vice president of player personnel in New England for nine years and the man charged with finding those specific players for Belichick.
    Interesting concept huh?
    VP of PP finds the player the coaches need/want......... :
    I really hope you aren't honestly comparing Spielman and Childress to Belichik and Pioli. If so you really need to see an optometrist.
    You know, this is probably the lamest attempt used by people on here to try to make thier point.....

    "Your not really trying to compare ours to thiers....."

    Seriously, thats the best you got?


    Lets try to take the grown up approach and actually look at/compare the process and procedures being followed by both staffs (not just the two/four chuckleheads you limit your lame response to) and see if maybe, just maybe there is some sort of similiarity...... :

    Come back to me after you do that.
    I will be back from the eye doc by then.

    ;D
    OK, Humor me then.

    Lets start with the QB position.

    They had a very good QB when they took over but knew that the QB was the most important position on the field so they drafted this one guy in the 6th round to develop. When he became the starter due to injury, they redid the offense to play to his strength and that led to a SB victory. When that QB went down last year they insertd a guy who hadn't started a game since HS and went on to an 11-5 record by once again changing the offense to adjust to his capabilities.

    OTOH we have spent 3 seasons fricken around with the position and trying to plug either sub par talent or to take talent with potential and asking them to do things they are not built to do well.

    I could go on but if that isn't enough for you to absorb then any more would be lost in translation.
    OK, if we must dwell on specifics, instead of the process we can.
    Such a shame though as the article is really good about laying that process out.


    Yes this staff seems to suck at fixing the QB position.
    Wow, I feel better now that I've got that off my chest for the umpteenthbazillion time.... ;D
    OK

    Lets look at the process.

    How are they similar?
    The Pats would see a player that they liked and would then bring them in and adjust the system to take advantage of their strengths. Heck, they even took a WR and converted them to play in the defensive secondary and went on to win a SB.

    OTOH we need to find a player with a specific skill set and it still takes 1.5 to 2 years to get them to adjust to the way the coaches want things instead of just reworking the system to make the player more successful.


    Here is a paragraph from the bio of Pioli on the Pats website:
    http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=MgersandExecsbio&bio=12539
    Once Pioli and Belichick arrived in New England in 2000, it took the pair just two seasons to rebuild the foundation of the team. Since orchestrating the franchise's first Super Bowl victory following the 2001 season, Pioli and Belichick have produced consistently solid results, becoming the only personnel director/head coach tandem in NFL history to win three Super Bowls in a four-year span (2001-04). The Patriots are the only NFL team to win at least one playoff game in each of the last five seasons (2003-07) and are the only team in the league to win nine or more games in each of the last seven seasons (2001-07

    There is nothing in common between the two. They are worlds apart.


    [/quote]
    You seriously think that they change thier scheme for a player or two.
    WOW.

    Anyway, maybe you need to re-read the article as I think you missed the whole point of it.

    Instead, Belichick looks for quality depth, knowing the starting 22 would never play 16 games without leaving the field.
    Doesn't sound like the type of player(s) you change a scheme for..... :

    The 10 free agents signed by the Browns fit that Patriots "plug a hole" philosophy.
    Doesn't sound like the type of player(s) you change a scheme for..... :

    Scott Pioli was the vice president of player personnel in New England for nine years and the man charged with finding those specific players for Belichick.
    Doesn't sound like the type of player(s) you change a scheme for..... :

    Seriously, why would you bring in role players to round out the predominance of your roster and then change a scheme for it.

    Again, I think you missed the whole concept of the article just to say you hate the Chiller.
    Guess what, almost all of us agree with you on that.


    [/quote]

    Silly Rabbit.

    I was under the impression you knew more about the game of football than to claim he never adjusted his system to adjust to the changes in personnel.If all you got for me is the rolling eyes it is clear you have no reply of substance,which I pretty much expected. Anyway just go ahead and live in your world where Chilly and Spielman are as good as Pioli and Belichik. I am sure that it is a very sunny world.


  6. #16
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
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    Re: Mangini and Browns following Belichick blueprint

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=51233.msg928231#msg928231 date=1238335715]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=51233.msg928229#msg928229 date=1238335376]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=51233.msg928216#msg928216 date=1238327985]
    Scott Pioli was the vice president of player personnel in New England for nine years and the man charged with finding those specific players for Belichick.
    Interesting concept huh?
    VP of PP finds the player the coaches need/want......... :
    I really hope you aren't honestly comparing Spielman and Childress to Belichik and Pioli. If so you really need to see an optometrist.
    You know, this is probably the lamest attempt used by people on here to try to make thier point.....

    "Your not really trying to compare ours to thiers....."

    Seriously, thats the best you got?


    Lets try to take the grown up approach and actually look at/compare the process and procedures being followed by both staffs (not just the two/four chuckleheads you limit your lame response to) and see if maybe, just maybe there is some sort of similiarity...... :

    Come back to me after you do that.
    I will be back from the eye doc by then.

    ;D
    OK, Humor me then.

    Lets start with the QB position.

    They had a very good QB when they took over but knew that the QB was the most important position on the field so they drafted this one guy in the 6th round to develop. When he became the starter due to injury, they redid the offense to play to his strength and that led to a SB victory. When that QB went down last year they insertd a guy who hadn't started a game since HS and went on to an 11-5 record by once again changing the offense to adjust to his capabilities.

    OTOH we have spent 3 seasons fricken around with the position and trying to plug either sub par talent or to take talent with potential and asking them to do things they are not built to do well.

    I could go on but if that isn't enough for you to absorb then any more would be lost in translation.
    OK, if we must dwell on specifics, instead of the process we can.
    Such a shame though as the article is really good about laying that process out.


    Yes this staff seems to suck at fixing the QB position.
    Wow, I feel better now that I've got that off my chest for the umpteenthbazillion time.... ;D
    OK

    Lets look at the process.

    How are they similar?
    The Pats would see a player that they liked and would then bring them in and adjust the system to take advantage of their strengths. Heck, they even took a WR and converted them to play in the defensive secondary and went on to win a SB.

    OTOH we need to find a player with a specific skill set and it still takes 1.5 to 2 years to get them to adjust to the way the coaches want things instead of just reworking the system to make the player more successful.


    Here is a paragraph from the bio of Pioli on the Pats website:
    http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=MgersandExecsbio&bio=12539
    Once Pioli and Belichick arrived in New England in 2000, it took the pair just two seasons to rebuild the foundation of the team. Since orchestrating the franchise's first Super Bowl victory following the 2001 season, Pioli and Belichick have produced consistently solid results, becoming the only personnel director/head coach tandem in NFL history to win three Super Bowls in a four-year span (2001-04). The Patriots are the only NFL team to win at least one playoff game in each of the last five seasons (2003-07) and are the only team in the league to win nine or more games in each of the last seven seasons (2001-07

    There is nothing in common between the two. They are worlds apart.


    [/quote]
    You seriously think that they change thier scheme for a player or two.
    WOW.

    Anyway, maybe you need to re-read the article as I think you missed the whole point of it.

    Instead, Belichick looks for quality depth, knowing the starting 22 would never play 16 games without leaving the field.
    Doesn't sound like the type of player(s) you change a scheme for..... :

    The 10 free agents signed by the Browns fit that Patriots "plug a hole" philosophy.
    Doesn't sound like the type of player(s) you change a scheme for..... :

    Scott Pioli was the vice president of player personnel in New England for nine years and the man charged with finding those specific players for Belichick.
    Doesn't sound like the type of player(s) you change a scheme for..... :

    Seriously, why would you bring in role players to round out the predominance of your roster and then change a scheme for it.

    Again, I think you missed the whole concept of the article just to say you hate the Chiller.
    Guess what, almost all of us agree with you on that.


    [/quote]

    Silly Rabbit.

    I was under the impression you knew more about the game of football than to claim he never adjusted his system to adjust to the changes in personnel.If all you got for me is the rolling eyes it is clear you have no reply of substance,which I pretty much expected. Anyway just go ahead and live in your world where Chilly and Spielman are as good as Pioli and Belichik. I am sure that it is a very sunny world.


    [/quote]
    Again with the comparison of Chilly and Spielman with Pioli and Belichik.
    Just because I don't want to go down that road doesn't mean I live in a world were Chilly and Spielman and my hero's or can do no wrong.

    By the way, rolling eyes don't always mean I am being negative, they can also mean the point bears some thought.
    Take alook at the quotes with that rationale in mind and then answer the question, why oh why would any coach and GM bring in role players and change a scheme for them as you alude?

    (No use of rolling eyes so I don't confuse you).
    ;D

    Seriously, I am not trying to say that our HC and GM like figurehead are on track or on par with the Patriots organization.
    As I stated before, if you read the article for what it is, you will see that I only said the article was interesting for how they round out thier rosters.

    Much like the Vikes have done, they do it with low tier FA's that fit the scheme and they don't go out and sign high price FA's.

    Take a look at my "Rolling Eye" points above and then compare them to signings like this and tell me again how you keep wanting to go down the "I hate Chiller and I am gonna keep making that point no matter what" path.

    2009
    Pos Player Name FA Status Previous Team Current Team
    RB Albert Young Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    FB Naufahu Tahi Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    WR Glenn Holt Signed Cincinnati Bengals Minnesota Vikings
    WR Jaymar Johnson Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    TE Jim Kleinsasser Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    OL Brian Daniels Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    DL Jimmy Kennedy Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    LB Heath Farwell Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    LB Kenny Onatolu Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    CB Charles Gordon Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    CB Karl Paymah Signed Denver Broncos Minnesota Vikings
    CB Derrick Roberson Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    CB Benny Sapp Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    CB Marcus Walker Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    SS Roderick Rogers Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings

    2008
    Pos Player Name FA Status Previous Team Current Team
    QB Gus Frerotte Signed St. Louis Rams Minnesota Vikings
    RB Maurice Hicks Signed San Francisco 49ers Minnesota Vikings
    RB Artose Pinner Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    FB Thomas Tapeh Signed Philadelphia Eagles Minnesota Vikings
    WR Bernard Berrian Signed Chicago Bears Minnesota Vikings
    WR Robert Ferguson Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    WR Brian Robinson Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    C Matt Roan Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    DL Jared Allen Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    DL Kenderick Allen Signed Cincinnati Bengals Minnesota Vikings
    DL Jimmy Kennedy Signed Jacksonville Jaguars Minnesota Vikings
    DL Ellis Wyms Signed Seattle Seahawks Minnesota Vikings
    LB Brannon Carter Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    LB Heath Farwell Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    LB Dallas Sartz Signed Washington Redskins Minnesota Vikings
    CB Benny Sapp Signed Kansas City Chiefs Minnesota Vikings
    SS Michael Boulware Signed Houston Texans Minnesota Vikings
    FS Robert Griffith Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    FS Madieu Williams Signed Cincinnati Bengals Minnesota Vikings

    2007
    Pos Player Name FA Status Previous Team Current Team
    QB Koy Detmer Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    QB Drew Henson Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    RB Artose Pinner Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    WR Robert Ferguson Signed Green Bay Packers Minnesota Vikings
    WR Bobby Wade Signed Tennessee Titans Minnesota Vikings
    TE Visanthe Shiancoe Signed New York Giants Minnesota Vikings
    P Chris Kluwe Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    OG Anthony Herrera Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    DL Alex Guerrero Re-signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    DL Spencer Johnson Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    DL Darrion Scott Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    LB Vinny Ciurciu Signed Carolina Panthers Minnesota Vikings
    LB Jason Glenn Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    SS Tank Williams Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    FS Mike Doss Signed Indianapolis Colts Minnesota Vikings

    2006
    Pos Player Name FA Status Previous Team Current Team
    QB Drew Henson Signed Dallas Cowboys Minnesota Vikings
    RB Brandon Jones Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    RB Artose Pinner Signed Detroit Lions Minnesota Vikings
    RB Chester Taylor Signed Baltimore Ravens Minnesota Vikings
    FB Joey Goodspeed Signed Free Agent Minnesota Vikings
    FB Tony Richardson Signed Kansas City Chiefs Minnesota Vikings
    FB Naufahu Tahi Signed Cincinnati Bengals Minnesota Vikings
    WR Bethel Johnson Signed New Orleans Saints Minnesota Vikings
    WR Todd Pinkston Signed Philadelphia Eagles Minnesota Vikings
    WR Dez White Signed Atlanta Falcons Minnesota Vikings
    PK Ryan Longwell Signed Green Bay Packers Minnesota Vikings
    OG Steve Hutchinson Signed Seattle Seahawks Minnesota Vikings
    OG Jason Whittle Signed New York Giants Minnesota Vikings
    OT Adam Goldberg Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota Vikings
    DL Ross Kolodziej Signed Arizona Cardinals Minnesota Vikings
    LB Jason Glenn Signed Miami Dolphins Minnesota Vikings
    LB Marcus Lawrence Signed New York Giants Minnesota Vikings
    LB Ben Leber Signed San Diego Chargers Minnesota Vikings
    SS Tank Williams Signed Tennessee Titans Minnesota Vikings
    FS Rashad Baker Signed Buffalo Bills Minnesota Vikings
    FS Dwight Smith Signed New Orleans Saints Minnesota Vikings



    http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/featu...by+Team&y=2009

    Not sure about you guys, however even with my limited knowledge of the game, I can see a trend.
    Resign key vets, draft wisely, sign second tier players and if necessary go after a big name FA that will fill a critical hole.

    Again, I have my issues with the Chiller.
    Just because I dare to discuss a shred of football that strayes from the mundane thought process of "I hate the Chiller" doesn't change that.
    Its just freshing sometimes to talk football instead of the same ole shit.

    : (lots of rolling eyes) :
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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