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  1. #21
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Julius Peppers killing Carolina

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    I don't think you and a few others here understand how the Tag works. Marr is saying that the FO is wrong for Franchising him. The FO isn't wrong for franchising him, they are wrong for not working out a deal with him years ago. They are also wrong for overestimating how quickly a trade could be worked out for him. You cannot let a player of his talents walk for nothing. The using the tag was the smartest thing they have done this season. I believe the issue is their asking price. The pats moved Cassell and got to sign their FAs. The market for Peppers is there, i believe they are asking for too much. Had they offered a 2nd for him, mst teams would have jumped on it.

    That 14 million agaisnt the cap gets erased as soon as a long term contract is reached with his new team.
    Not sure how you got all of that (Marr is saying) from this......

    More proof that our FO is doing the right thing.
    Hell, I wasn't even talking about thier FO but ours.......
    I took that as saying that their FO isn't doing the right thing. Which they are! As I said before, they are not tryign to keep him but they are asking too much for him. Much of their issues stem from the delay in getting Gross signed.
    what are you talking about.. no it isn't ... their issues stem from backloading the hell out of Pepp's rookie contract and not signing him to an extension sooner.. has nothing to do with Gross...

    and as far as anyone knows they aren't trying to trade him.. they want to keep him... if they are trying to trade him it stems from them wanting to get market value, but teams not willing to give market value and then pay a contract on top of that...

    Gross is a non issue...

  2. #22
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    Re: Julius Peppers killing Carolina

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    I don't think you and a few others here understand how the Tag works. Marr is saying that the FO is wrong for Franchising him. The FO isn't wrong for franchising him, they are wrong for not working out a deal with him years ago. They are also wrong for overestimating how quickly a trade could be worked out for him. You cannot let a player of his talents walk for nothing. The using the tag was the smartest thing they have done this season. I believe the issue is their asking price. The pats moved Cassell and got to sign their FAs. The market for Peppers is there, i believe they are asking for too much. Had they offered a 2nd for him, mst teams would have jumped on it.

    That 14 million agaisnt the cap gets erased as soon as a long term contract is reached with his new team.
    Not sure how you got all of that (Marr is saying) from this......

    More proof that our FO is doing the right thing.
    Hell, I wasn't even talking about thier FO but ours.......
    I took that as saying that their FO isn't doing the right thing. Which they are! As I said before, they are not tryign to keep him but they are asking too much for him. Much of their issues stem from the delay in getting Gross signed.
    what are you talking about.. no it isn't ... their issues stem from backloading the hell out of Pepp's rookie contract and not signing him to an extension sooner.. has nothing to do with Gross...

    and as far as anyone knows they aren't trying to trade him.. they want to keep him... if they are trying to trade him it stems from them wanting to get market value, but teams not willing to give market value and then pay a contract on top of that...

    Gross is a non issue...
    What are you talking about. Pepper is not in his Rookie contract. He has been franchised!

  3. #23
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    Re: Julius Peppers killing Carolina

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    I don't think you and a few others here understand how the Tag works. Marr is saying that the FO is wrong for Franchising him. The FO isn't wrong for franchising him, they are wrong for not working out a deal with him years ago. They are also wrong for overestimating how quickly a trade could be worked out for him. You cannot let a player of his talents walk for nothing. The using the tag was the smartest thing they have done this season. I believe the issue is their asking price. The pats moved Cassell and got to sign their FAs. The market for Peppers is there, i believe they are asking for too much. Had they offered a 2nd for him, mst teams would have jumped on it.

    That 14 million agaisnt the cap gets erased as soon as a long term contract is reached with his new team.
    Not sure how you got all of that (Marr is saying) from this......

    More proof that our FO is doing the right thing.
    Hell, I wasn't even talking about thier FO but ours.......
    I took that as saying that their FO isn't doing the right thing. Which they are! As I said before, they are not tryign to keep him but they are asking too much for him. Much of their issues stem from the delay in getting Gross signed.
    what are you talking about.. no it isn't ... their issues stem from backloading the hell out of Pepp's rookie contract and not signing him to an extension sooner.. has nothing to do with Gross...

    and as far as anyone knows they aren't trying to trade him.. they want to keep him... if they are trying to trade him it stems from them wanting to get market value, but teams not willing to give market value and then pay a contract on top of that...

    Gross is a non issue...
    This has everything to do with Gross. The deal with gross took too long to get done, so the Panthers were not able to apply the franchise tag to Peppers(and risk loosing Gross) in time. Because Peppers was not franchised until the night before the begining of FA, a market for his worth was not fully worked out/developed. As opposed to Cassell, who was franchised very early into the process and traded right away. Had the Pats taken Cassell's true value via draft pics, they would be in cap hell as well.

  4. #24
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Julius Peppers killing Carolina

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    I don't think you and a few others here understand how the Tag works. Marr is saying that the FO is wrong for Franchising him. The FO isn't wrong for franchising him, they are wrong for not working out a deal with him years ago. They are also wrong for overestimating how quickly a trade could be worked out for him. You cannot let a player of his talents walk for nothing. The using the tag was the smartest thing they have done this season. I believe the issue is their asking price. The pats moved Cassell and got to sign their FAs. The market for Peppers is there, i believe they are asking for too much. Had they offered a 2nd for him, mst teams would have jumped on it.

    That 14 million agaisnt the cap gets erased as soon as a long term contract is reached with his new team.
    Not sure how you got all of that (Marr is saying) from this......

    More proof that our FO is doing the right thing.
    Hell, I wasn't even talking about thier FO but ours.......
    I took that as saying that their FO isn't doing the right thing. Which they are! As I said before, they are not tryign to keep him but they are asking too much for him. Much of their issues stem from the delay in getting Gross signed.
    what are you talking about.. no it isn't ... their issues stem from backloading the hell out of Pepp's rookie contract and not signing him to an extension sooner.. has nothing to do with Gross...

    and as far as anyone knows they aren't trying to trade him.. they want to keep him... if they are trying to trade him it stems from them wanting to get market value, but teams not willing to give market value and then pay a contract on top of that...

    Gross is a non issue...
    This has everything to do with Gross. The deal with gross took too long to get done, so the Panthers were not able to apply the franchise tag to Peppers(and risk loosing Gross) in time. Because Peppers was not franchised until the night before the begining of FA, a market for his worth was not fully worked out/developed. As opposed to Cassell, who was franchised very early into the process and traded right away. Had the Pats taken Cassell's true value via draft pics, they would be in cap hell as well.
    WHAT!!!... that just doesn't make sense... He was franchised whether it be last second or not.. he's franchised bc they wanted to keep him or trade him and get something for him...

    trading for a DE with a 18mill cap value versus a unproven QB with a 15mill cap value who btw you got a 2nd round pick for isn't the same.. besides, QB's have way more value than DE's do...

    that's the whole point.. they want market value for Peppers where the pats didn't get max value for him... if their price were to come down i'm sure he'd be unloaded by now...

    regardless, if Peppers was actually the impact player he should be then he'd be traded by now... problem is, he doens't always show up on tape and that's the knock on him... like i said, they are strapped bc he has a ridiculous cap number and a teams gonna have to give up picks for him.. besides, whos' to say they want to trade him.. all indications are that they want to keep him... Going as far as to fire the DC and Dline coach to please him..

    problem with peppers is that he's not the impact franchise player that his cap number indicates... Carolina gave him a bad rookie contract in terms of the cash they have to spend to keep him.. a'la Larry Fitzgerald..

  5. #25
    Schutz's Avatar
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    Re: Julius Peppers killing Carolina

    Whenever I see this thread title for some reason I get this picture in my head of Peppers stabbing both the Carolina states.

  6. #26
    seaniemck7's Avatar
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    Re: Julius Peppers killing Carolina

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=51234.msg928477#msg928477 date=1238415977]
    [quote author=i_bleed_purple link=topic=51234.msg928435#msg928435 date=1238382521]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=51234.msg928217#msg928217 date=1238328154]
    Almost every move the Carolina Panthers make - or can’t make - this offseason is based on one figure: $16.7 million.

    It’s why they’ve yet to sign a free agent, while backup offensive linemen Geoff Hangartner (Buffalo) and Frank Omiyale (Chicago), kick returner Mark Jones (Tennessee) and linebacker Adam Seward (Indianapolis) have left for other teams.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/f...61954&srvc=rss

    More proof that our FO is doing the right thing.
    Superbowls they almost won in the past 10 years:
    Panthers 1
    Vikings: 0
    Superbowls they will almost win after doing something stupid like committing huge dollars to one player, loosing numerous other players (depth): 0
    Marr,
    Come on! had they resigned the guy to a long term contract. they would be paying him about 7 - 8 milliona year. That's less than half of what they are paying now. I believe that our front office is paying a DL 7-8 million a year. What's that guys name again? :P
    Therein lies the rub now doesn't it?
    If if if........Because they DIDN'T, the CAP against him is killing that team.
    Marr is dead on here.
    Relatively speaking, a team cannot allocate 12.5% of your total CAP to one man on a 53 man roster and not expect to have serious reprocussions on your overall talent across your team.
    This is why there is no way in hell Cassell was not getting traded this year.
    It is also why the Colts never won the Super Bowl with Peyton Manning and his monstrosity of a contract until the CBA was renegotiated to increase the CAP based on total revenues.


    This is not Pepper's fault, but the fault of the FO not managing the financial side of the house.

    [/quote]
    Exact reason why ole Brycheapski earns his wage.....His "Decisions" keep a HC from going out and sending willey knilley for any player a HC might want...... ;D
    [/quote]

    its' actually closer to 14% of their cap 17mill / 123mill

    but that being besides the point.. the Panthers should not have back loaded that contract that way a'la Larry Fitzgerld so that they are now in a bind or in danger of loosing him...

    he holds ALL the leverage and cards when trying to renegotiate or get rid of him... Even moreso.. he's just not worth that much.. that's QB money.. and that's high for a QB outside of Brady and Manning...

    and i can't believe some ppl actually wanted/want to trade for this guy... moronic...!
    [/quote]

    As you said, its not necessaily the point, but I am almost positive the total CAP per team was raised by $4M to 127 due to teams not spending the floor minimum due to players not reaching certain contract incentives.

    Carry on...

  7. #27
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Julius Peppers killing Carolina

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=kevoncox link=topic=51234.msg929671#msg929671 date=1238599092]
    I don't think you and a few others here understand how the Tag works. Marr is saying that the FO is wrong for Franchising him. The FO isn't wrong for franchising him, they are wrong for not working out a deal with him years ago. They are also wrong for overestimating how quickly a trade could be worked out for him. You cannot let a player of his talents walk for nothing. The using the tag was the smartest thing they have done this season. I believe the issue is their asking price. The pats moved Cassell and got to sign their FAs. The market for Peppers is there, i believe they are asking for too much. Had they offered a 2nd for him, most teams would have jumped on it.

    That 14 million agaisnt the cap gets erased as soon as a long term contract is reached with his new team.
    Not sure how you got all of that (Marr is saying) from this......

    More proof that our FO is doing the right thing.
    Hell, I wasn't even talking about thier FO but ours.......
    I took that as saying that their FO isn't doing the right thing. Which they are! As I said before, they are not tryign to keep him but they are asking too much for him. Much of their issues stem from the delay in getting Gross signed.
    what are you talking about.. no it isn't ... their issues stem from backloading the hell out of Pepp's rookie contract and not signing him to an extension sooner.. has nothing to do with Gross...

    and as far as anyone knows they aren't trying to trade him.. they want to keep him... if they are trying to trade him it stems from them wanting to get market value, but teams not willing to give market value and then pay a contract on top of that...

    Gross is a non issue...
    This has everything to do with Gross. The deal with gross took too long to get done, so the Panthers were not able to apply the franchise tag to Peppers(and risk loosing Gross) in time. Because Peppers was not franchised until the night before the begining of FA, a market for his worth was not fully worked out/developed. As opposed to Cassell, who was franchised very early into the process and traded right away. Had the Pats taken Cassell's true value via draft pics, they would be in cap hell as well.
    WHAT!!!... that just doesn't make sense... He was franchised whether it be last second or not.. he's franchised bc they wanted to keep him or trade him and get something for him...

    trading for a DE with a 18mill cap value versus a unproven QB with a 15mill cap value who btw you got a 2nd round pick for isn't the same.. besides, QB's have way more value than DE's do...

    that's the whole point.. they want market value for Peppers where the pats didn't get max value for him... if their price were to come down i'm sure he'd be unloaded by now...

    regardless, if Peppers was actually the impact player he should be then he'd be traded by now... problem is, he doens't always show up on tape and that's the knock on him... like i said, they are strapped bc he has a ridiculous cap number and a teams gonna have to give up picks for him.. besides, whos' to say they want to trade him.. all indications are that they want to keep him... Going as far as to fire the DC and Dline coach to please him..

    problem with peppers is that he's not the impact franchise player that his cap number indicates... Carolina gave him a bad rookie contract in terms of the cash they have to spend to keep him.. a'la Larry Fitzgerald..
    [/quote]

    That's my point. You don't understand the process.
    Peppers does not have an 18 million dollar cap figure. His cap number will be what ever his and his new team agree it will be. Same with Cassell and his 14 mil cap figure. It doesn't exsist once they are traded. No team traded for a franchise player without working out a long term deal with said player first. It's like Jared Allen last season. He was franchised and his cap should have counted for appx $7mil. However, we negotiated a contract with him prior to the trade and his real contract value was now that of the new contract. If the Pats were to trade for Peppers, they would simply have to negotiate the contract ahead of time( they aren't allowed to but it happenes all of the time).

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Julius Peppers killing Carolina

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=51234.msg929679#msg929679 date=1238600073]
    [quote author=kevoncox link=topic=51234.msg929671#msg929671 date=1238599092]
    I don't think you and a few others here understand how the Tag works. Marr is saying that the FO is wrong for Franchising him. The FO isn't wrong for franchising him, they are wrong for not working out a deal with him years ago. They are also wrong for overestimating how quickly a trade could be worked out for him. You cannot let a player of his talents walk for nothing. The using the tag was the smartest thing they have done this season. I believe the issue is their asking price. The pats moved Cassell and got to sign their FAs. The market for Peppers is there, i believe they are asking for too much. Had they offered a 2nd for him, most teams would have jumped on it.

    That 14 million agaisnt the cap gets erased as soon as a long term contract is reached with his new team.
    Not sure how you got all of that (Marr is saying) from this......

    More proof that our FO is doing the right thing.
    Hell, I wasn't even talking about thier FO but ours.......
    I took that as saying that their FO isn't doing the right thing. Which they are! As I said before, they are not tryign to keep him but they are asking too much for him. Much of their issues stem from the delay in getting Gross signed.
    what are you talking about.. no it isn't ... their issues stem from backloading the hell out of Pepp's rookie contract and not signing him to an extension sooner.. has nothing to do with Gross...

    and as far as anyone knows they aren't trying to trade him.. they want to keep him... if they are trying to trade him it stems from them wanting to get market value, but teams not willing to give market value and then pay a contract on top of that...

    Gross is a non issue...
    This has everything to do with Gross. The deal with gross took too long to get done, so the Panthers were not able to apply the franchise tag to Peppers(and risk loosing Gross) in time. Because Peppers was not franchised until the night before the begining of FA, a market for his worth was not fully worked out/developed. As opposed to Cassell, who was franchised very early into the process and traded right away. Had the Pats taken Cassell's true value via draft pics, they would be in cap hell as well.
    WHAT!!!... that just doesn't make sense... He was franchised whether it be last second or not.. he's franchised bc they wanted to keep him or trade him and get something for him...

    trading for a DE with a 18mill cap value versus a unproven QB with a 15mill cap value who btw you got a 2nd round pick for isn't the same.. besides, QB's have way more value than DE's do...

    that's the whole point.. they want market value for Peppers where the pats didn't get max value for him... if their price were to come down i'm sure he'd be unloaded by now...

    regardless, if Peppers was actually the impact player he should be then he'd be traded by now... problem is, he doens't always show up on tape and that's the knock on him... like i said, they are strapped bc he has a ridiculous cap number and a teams gonna have to give up picks for him.. besides, whos' to say they want to trade him.. all indications are that they want to keep him... Going as far as to fire the DC and Dline coach to please him..

    problem with peppers is that he's not the impact franchise player that his cap number indicates... Carolina gave him a bad rookie contract in terms of the cash they have to spend to keep him.. a'la Larry Fitzgerald..
    [/quote]

    That's my point. You don't understand the process.
    Peppers does not have an 18 million dollar cap figure. His cap number will be what ever his and his new team agree it will be. Same with Cassell and his 14 mil cap figure. It doesn't exsist once they are traded. No team traded for a franchise player without working out a long term deal with said player first. It's like Jared Allen last season. He was franchised and his cap should have counted for appx $7mil. However, we negotiated a contract with him prior to the trade and his real contract value was now that of the new contract. If the Pats were to trade for Peppers, they would simply have to negotiate the contract ahead of time( they aren't allowed to but it happenes all of the time).

    [/quote]
    And what happens if no one wants to trade for him?

    Do they keep him and let his CAP hit them with his tagged amount or do they just outright let him go?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Julius Peppers killing Carolina

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    [quote author=kevoncox link=topic=51234.msg929755#msg929755 date=1238604940]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=51234.msg929679#msg929679 date=1238600073]
    [quote author=kevoncox link=topic=51234.msg929671#msg929671 date=1238599092]
    I don't think you and a few others here understand how the Tag works. Marr is saying that the FO is wrong for Franchising him. The FO isn't wrong for franchising him, they are wrong for not working out a deal with him years ago. They are also wrong for overestimating how quickly a trade could be worked out for him. You cannot let a player of his talents walk for nothing. The using the tag was the smartest thing they have done this season. I believe the issue is their asking price. The pats moved Cassell and got to sign their FAs. The market for Peppers is there, i believe they are asking for too much. Had they offered a 2nd for him, most teams would have jumped on it.

    That 14 million agaisnt the cap gets erased as soon as a long term contract is reached with his new team.
    Not sure how you got all of that (Marr is saying) from this......

    More proof that our FO is doing the right thing.
    Hell, I wasn't even talking about thier FO but ours.......
    I took that as saying that their FO isn't doing the right thing. Which they are! As I said before, they are not tryign to keep him but they are asking too much for him. Much of their issues stem from the delay in getting Gross signed.
    what are you talking about.. no it isn't ... their issues stem from backloading the hell out of Pepp's rookie contract and not signing him to an extension sooner.. has nothing to do with Gross...

    and as far as anyone knows they aren't trying to trade him.. they want to keep him... if they are trying to trade him it stems from them wanting to get market value, but teams not willing to give market value and then pay a contract on top of that...

    Gross is a non issue...
    This has everything to do with Gross. The deal with gross took too long to get done, so the Panthers were not able to apply the franchise tag to Peppers(and risk loosing Gross) in time. Because Peppers was not franchised until the night before the begining of FA, a market for his worth was not fully worked out/developed. As opposed to Cassell, who was franchised very early into the process and traded right away. Had the Pats taken Cassell's true value via draft pics, they would be in cap hell as well.
    WHAT!!!... that just doesn't make sense... He was franchised whether it be last second or not.. he's franchised bc they wanted to keep him or trade him and get something for him...

    trading for a DE with a 18mill cap value versus a unproven QB with a 15mill cap value who btw you got a 2nd round pick for isn't the same.. besides, QB's have way more value than DE's do...

    that's the whole point.. they want market value for Peppers where the pats didn't get max value for him... if their price were to come down i'm sure he'd be unloaded by now...

    regardless, if Peppers was actually the impact player he should be then he'd be traded by now... problem is, he doens't always show up on tape and that's the knock on him... like i said, they are strapped bc he has a ridiculous cap number and a teams gonna have to give up picks for him.. besides, whos' to say they want to trade him.. all indications are that they want to keep him... Going as far as to fire the DC and Dline coach to please him..

    problem with peppers is that he's not the impact franchise player that his cap number indicates... Carolina gave him a bad rookie contract in terms of the cash they have to spend to keep him.. a'la Larry Fitzgerald..
    [/quote]

    That's my point. You don't understand the process.
    Peppers does not have an 18 million dollar cap figure. His cap number will be what ever his and his new team agree it will be. Same with Cassell and his 14 mil cap figure. It doesn't exsist once they are traded. No team traded for a franchise player without working out a long term deal with said player first. It's like Jared Allen last season. He was franchised and his cap should have counted for appx $7mil. However, we negotiated a contract with him prior to the trade and his real contract value was now that of the new contract. If the Pats were to trade for Peppers, they would simply have to negotiate the contract ahead of time( they aren't allowed to but it happenes all of the time).

    [/quote]
    And what happens if no one wants to trade for him?

    Do they keep him and let his CAP hit them with his tagged amount or do they just outright let him go?
    [/quote]

    They will let him go or try to convince him to stay and renogotiate a deal with him. Again, he would be on another team(Still wishing it was ours) had they worked out a contract Jordan Gross. Now a lot of teams money have been spent (except Tampa who is in their division)

  10. #30
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    Re: Julius Peppers killing Carolina

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    They will let him go or try to convince him to stay and renogotiate a deal with him. Again, he would be on another team(Still wishing it was ours) had they worked out a contract Jordan Gross. Now a lot of teams money have been spent (except Tampa who is in their division)
    Again, there is the problem.

    Seems he doesn't want to stay (or they could have a deal done already) and everyone realizes that he doesn't want to stay.
    Now they are all just sitting back and waiting for him to be released cause they know the Panthers would be stupid to keep him for a year.

    Which brings me back to my opening statement......

    More proof that our FO is doing the right thing.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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