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  1. #21
    V4L's Avatar
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    Re:Issac Bruce to retire a Ram

    Im drunk as shit that post was odd.. Keep saying things were a wash and who id take after hahahaa

    But for real.. Giants.. better offense that year.. I just noticed Dugan started 7 games for us that year.. That's horrible

    Id take Tiki, Shockey, Toomer, Amani, And the much better consistant line over........

    Chester, Dugan (and others not worthy of full time starter) Robinson, Taylor, And our O-line by commity

    Now what was it we were babbling about? Warner was awesome.. bruce was awesome.. Vikes had a shitty team Jackson first first years besides D.. Warner had good teams but also worked with shitty teams

    Now back to my beer

  2. #22
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    Re:Issac Bruce to retire a Ram

    V4L wrote:
    Although I have no idea what we are arguing.. I looked up the rosters of Kurt Warners year in NY, and Jackson's first year

    I do have to say with my average NFL knowledge.. There is no way I would take the Vikes offense that year over the Giants

    Vikings offense- Chester Taylor, Travis Taylor, Williamson, Robinson.. And a O-line by commity with Rosenthal, Marcus Johnson, Hicks.. Ryan cook.. TEs Jermaine Wiggins on a decline and a blockin TE in Jimmy.. Etc

    Giants- Shockey, Tiki Barber, WRs a wash IMO Id give the nod to Hilliard and Toomer though over Robinson and Taylor.. The line basically a wash except they were more consistant.. I would take O'hara, Diehl, Snee, Whittle, Petigout over that line we had any day.. WE had Hutch, Birk and McKinnie who started all games.. But Birk clearly wasn't the same and mac still to this day has slow feet

    So to say Warner had a shitty offense is bunk.. Both had flaws.. But I really see no point in comparing the two.. 2 seperate years.. Warner is a future HOF'er.. Jackson was a rookie on a far worse offense IMO
    Keep in mind that was 6 years ago. in 2004 Snee was a rookie, O'Hara only started 12 games, don't know if he was hurt or just not that good, all while in his first year as a Giant, Diehl was a second year player, Whittle was older, but again, first year as a Giant, and he bounced around the leage(actually went to the Vikes after the Giants.. can't remember him though), Petigout was the only guy who's been there for some time. So their line consisted of a rookie, 3 first year giants, a second year player and one vet from previous years. No chemistry and they did just flat out play poorly. Warner was sacked 39 times in only 9 starts. Thats more than any other year.



    The Giants finished 6-10 in 2004.

  3. #23
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    Re:Issac Bruce to retire a Ram

    V4L wrote:
    Now back to my beer

  4. #24
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    Re:Issac Bruce to retire a Ram

    All that is true!!

    I guess ill go with my "it's a wash but ill take whoever" method

    I guess looking into it even more id say it was a wash.. And virtually pointless to compare these 2 teams or 2 QBs

  5. #25
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    Re:Issac Bruce to retire a Ram

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    The Giants finished 6-10 in 2004.
    Some would argue that a HOF QB could have lead his team to a better win/loss record than that.....
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
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    Re:Issac Bruce to retire a Ram

    V4L wrote:
    HAHAHAHA Marrdro has lost his mind
    ....snicker....No he hasn't, he is just messing with peoples heads a bit.

    Shhhhhh, don't tellem though.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Issac Bruce to retire a Ram

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Hot + Bruce = Proof that WR's can carry a QB.
    hmm... so Kurt Warner is no good theN?
    Even though I liked what Warner did with the Rams as well as the Cards, one has to then step back and ask what happened to him when he was on the Giants?

    In short, you give a QB cats like Fitz/Bolden or Bruce/Holt, and a QB can look very very very good.
    like you can hold that against him.

    9 games, 2000 yards and 6 TD's and an 86 QB rating, all with a terrible, terrible OL.

    He actually didn't do THAT bad considering. over the course of a full season, that would translate to roughly 3600 yards.

    Thats what happens when you put an old, immobile guy behind a terrible line.
    Could that rationale be applied to a young inexperience QB behind a terrible OL? :huh:

    Banish the thought.
    if it were an isolated, one time thing? Sure. I have a feeling the young inexperienced QB you refer to had many chances to succeed and didn't.

    Warner Has played great more times than not, and was even acceptable behind a terrible OL with Toomer as his primary weapon.
    I love the "He had many chances" line. You must think the Vikes were full up round and ready to go when it was gutted then to. LOL.

    As to Warner. He dissapeared when he left the Rams and was anything but acceptable.
    bullshit. As caine pointed out, every other QB we've signed, all of whom have been terrible have been able to out-perform TJ with the exact same team around them.
    So you would rather have Holcomb, Brooks, and BJ over TJ? Bullshit my ass.

    No QB, except the Noodle, has been able to run this offense. Hell, BJ was a SB winning QB and he wasn't even allowed to audible.

    But back to your Warner Logic. I guess taht means that Moss is crap right? Sinc ehe 'disappeared' in oakland. Or that Jerry Rice is nothing special, since he 'disappeared' in Seattle
    Moss protected himself until he could get out of Oakland. Jerry was done when he moved on.

    Do receivers make a QB look better? Absolutely, you'd be stupid to think otherwise, but Warner is not solely a product of the system. The reason he couldn't make New York into contenders is becausee that whole team sucked. You can add a guy like Warner who can give players opportunities, but if they can't take advantage, it kinda limits what they can do.
    Wait a minute, are you now trying to say that a HOF QB can't make the players around him better?

    Face it, the Rams and Cards recievers made him better, he didn't make them better.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
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    Re:Issac Bruce to retire a Ram

    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Hot + Bruce = Proof that WR's can carry a QB.
    hmm... so Kurt Warner is no good theN?
    Even though I liked what Warner did with the Rams as well as the Cards, one has to then step back and ask what happened to him when he was on the Giants?

    In short, you give a QB cats like Fitz/Bolden or Bruce/Holt, and a QB can look very very very good.
    like you can hold that against him.

    9 games, 2000 yards and 6 TD's and an 86 QB rating, all with a terrible, terrible OL.

    He actually didn't do THAT bad considering. over the course of a full season, that would translate to roughly 3600 yards.

    Thats what happens when you put an old, immobile guy behind a terrible line.
    Could that rationale be applied to a young inexperience QB behind a terrible OL? :huh:

    Banish the thought.
    if it were an isolated, one time thing? Sure. I have a feeling the young inexperienced QB you refer to had many chances to succeed and didn't.

    Warner Has played great more times than not, and was even acceptable behind a terrible OL with Toomer as his primary weapon.
    I love the "He had many chances" line. You must think the Vikes were full up round and ready to go when it was gutted then to. LOL.

    As to Warner. He dissapeared when he left the Rams and was anything but acceptable.
    bullshit. As caine pointed out, every other QB we've signed, all of whom have been terrible have been able to out-perform TJ with the exact same team around them.
    So you would rather have Holcomb, Brooks, and BJ over TJ? Bullshit my ass.

    No QB, except the Noodle, has been able to run this offense. Hell, BJ was a SB winning QB and he wasn't even allowed to audible.
    You don't think maybe thats a bit indicitave of the coach? I don't think that the offense was too complex for BJ to understand. He ran a WCO for quite a while.
    But back to your Warner Logic. I guess taht means that Moss is crap right? Sinc ehe 'disappeared' in oakland. Or that Jerry Rice is nothing special, since he 'disappeared' in Seattle
    Moss protected himself until he could get out of Oakland. Jerry was done when he moved on.
    Whats that you say to me... right.

    ...Excuses :P
    Do receivers make a QB look better? Absolutely, you'd be stupid to think otherwise, but Warner is not solely a product of the system. The reason he couldn't make New York into contenders is becausee that whole team sucked. You can add a guy like Warner who can give players opportunities, but if they can't take advantage, it kinda limits what they can do.
    Wait a minute, are you now trying to say that a HOF QB can't make the players around him better?

    Face it, the Rams and Cards recievers made him better, he didn't make them better.
    Hmm, I'm interested to see how Fitzgerald does with Lienart then.

  9. #29
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    Re:Issac Bruce to retire a Ram

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Hot + Bruce = Proof that WR's can carry a QB.
    hmm... so Kurt Warner is no good theN?
    Even though I liked what Warner did with the Rams as well as the Cards, one has to then step back and ask what happened to him when he was on the Giants?

    In short, you give a QB cats like Fitz/Bolden or Bruce/Holt, and a QB can look very very very good.
    like you can hold that against him.

    9 games, 2000 yards and 6 TD's and an 86 QB rating, all with a terrible, terrible OL.

    He actually didn't do THAT bad considering. over the course of a full season, that would translate to roughly 3600 yards.

    Thats what happens when you put an old, immobile guy behind a terrible line.
    Could that rationale be applied to a young inexperience QB behind a terrible OL? :huh:

    Banish the thought.
    if it were an isolated, one time thing? Sure. I have a feeling the young inexperienced QB you refer to had many chances to succeed and didn't.

    Warner Has played great more times than not, and was even acceptable behind a terrible OL with Toomer as his primary weapon.
    I love the "He had many chances" line. You must think the Vikes were full up round and ready to go when it was gutted then to. LOL.

    As to Warner. He dissapeared when he left the Rams and was anything but acceptable.
    bullshit. As caine pointed out, every other QB we've signed, all of whom have been terrible have been able to out-perform TJ with the exact same team around them.
    So you would rather have Holcomb, Brooks, and BJ over TJ? Bullshit my ass.

    No QB, except the Noodle, has been able to run this offense. Hell, BJ was a SB winning QB and he wasn't even allowed to audible.
    You don't think maybe thats a bit indicitave of the coach? I don't think that the offense was too complex for BJ to understand. He ran a WCO for quite a while.
    But back to your Warner Logic. I guess taht means that Moss is crap right? Sinc ehe 'disappeared' in oakland. Or that Jerry Rice is nothing special, since he 'disappeared' in Seattle
    Moss protected himself until he could get out of Oakland. Jerry was done when he moved on.
    Whats that you say to me... right.

    ...Excuses :P
    Do receivers make a QB look better? Absolutely, you'd be stupid to think otherwise, but Warner is not solely a product of the system. The reason he couldn't make New York into contenders is becausee that whole team sucked. You can add a guy like Warner who can give players opportunities, but if they can't take advantage, it kinda limits what they can do.
    Wait a minute, are you now trying to say that a HOF QB can't make the players around him better?

    Face it, the Rams and Cards recievers made him better, he didn't make them better.
    Hmm, I'm interested to see how Fitzgerald does with Lienart then.
    Especially since Bolden is gone.....
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re:Issac Bruce to retire a Ram

    V4L wrote:
    Now back to my beer
    I thought you quit drinking.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

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