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  1. #11
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re:Insider: The risk-reward of drafting RBs

    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    ......snip.....My concern this year is backups at DT, ....snip.....
    When was the last time I told you that you are wise beyond your years my friend?

    Not many see it that way by the way.
    I sure as hell don't. If we assume that KWill and Phat Pat are playing (which it does appear they are) then I'm perfectly happy with Jimmy Kennedy, Fred Evans and Letroy Guion (with some Brian Robison mixed in there for speed).

    =Z=
    You may be right. I think we are looking ahead a little and hoping there is no injury, or suspension, or erosion of skill level this year, to our starters.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  2. #12
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Insider: The risk-reward of drafting RBs

    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    ......snip.....My concern this year is backups at DT, ....snip.....
    When was the last time I told you that you are wise beyond your years my friend?

    Not many see it that way by the way.
    I know. We have no back up with the skill set of Pat.
    If we don't find a replacement with that type of skill set, it will substantially change our defense.

    Now that may not be a bad thing over all as it may improve our pass defense. But it has to hurt our run defense.

    And as good as KW is, he didn't show up much for several games last year. I'm not sure why.
    You catch Total Access on NFLN last night?

    Sapp was talking about Dan Price playing that technique in Tampa this year.

    I for one think we screwed the pooch on that one this year.

    As to K-dubb......No Roids. :P
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Insider: The risk-reward of drafting RBs

    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    ......snip.....My concern this year is backups at DT, ....snip.....
    When was the last time I told you that you are wise beyond your years my friend?

    Not many see it that way by the way.
    I sure as hell don't. If we assume that KWill and Phat Pat are playing (which it does appear they are) then I'm perfectly happy with Jimmy Kennedy, Fred Evans and Letroy Guion (with some Brian Robison mixed in there for speed).

    =Z=
    You are correct, if they play. I think we are probably gonna see them play, however, the league (because of the loophole) could get them suspended this year.

    The other side of it is that with Phat Pat out we really don't have a 0 technique guy that can take those reps so in essence, Phat Pat has to play all running plays. If I was a D-coord I would be able to game plan around that "Tell" a bit.

    And.....if you take it one step further, we really don't have anyone lined up for next year when he retires. I know most look only at this year, but you know I kindof look at things a bit differently. I would have liked to see someone in there this year watching the big fella so they wouldn't have to go it alone next year without the benifit of watching him work his craft.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Insider: The risk-reward of drafting RBs

    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    ......snip.....My concern this year is backups at DT, ....snip.....
    When was the last time I told you that you are wise beyond your years my friend?

    Not many see it that way by the way.
    I sure as hell don't. If we assume that KWill and Phat Pat are playing (which it does appear they are) then I'm perfectly happy with Jimmy Kennedy, Fred Evans and Letroy Guion (with some Brian Robison mixed in there for speed).

    =Z=
    You may be right. I think we are looking ahead a little and hoping there is no injury, or suspension, or erosion of skill level this year, to our starters.
    I think we saw the beginnings of just that (Erosion) last year.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
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    Re:Insider: The risk-reward of drafting RBs

    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    ......snip.....My concern this year is backups at DT, ....snip.....
    When was the last time I told you that you are wise beyond your years my friend?

    Not many see it that way by the way.
    I sure as hell don't. If we assume that KWill and Phat Pat are playing (which it does appear they are) then I'm perfectly happy with Jimmy Kennedy, Fred Evans and Letroy Guion (with some Brian Robison mixed in there for speed).

    =Z=
    You are correct, if they play. I think we are probably gonna see them play, however, the league (because of the loophole) could get them suspended this year.

    The other side of it is that with Phat Pat out we really don't have a 0 technique guy that can take those reps so in essence, Phat Pat has to play all running plays. If I was a D-coord I would be able to game plan around that "Tell" a bit.

    And.....if you take it one step further, we really don't have anyone lined up for next year when he retires. I know most look only at this year, but you know I kindof look at things a bit differently. I would have liked to see someone in there this year watching the big fella so they wouldn't have to go it alone next year without the benifit of watching him work his craft.

    I would agree with you but Pat sat out ALOT last year

    Jimmy filled in nicely at NT.. If Pat is out for 4 games I don't think Jimmy would be THAT much of drop off

  6. #16
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Insider: The risk-reward of drafting RBs

    V4L wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    ......snip.....My concern this year is backups at DT, ....snip.....
    When was the last time I told you that you are wise beyond your years my friend?

    Not many see it that way by the way.
    I sure as hell don't. If we assume that KWill and Phat Pat are playing (which it does appear they are) then I'm perfectly happy with Jimmy Kennedy, Fred Evans and Letroy Guion (with some Brian Robison mixed in there for speed).

    =Z=
    You are correct, if they play. I think we are probably gonna see them play, however, the league (because of the loophole) could get them suspended this year.

    The other side of it is that with Phat Pat out we really don't have a 0 technique guy that can take those reps so in essence, Phat Pat has to play all running plays. If I was a D-coord I would be able to game plan around that "Tell" a bit.

    And.....if you take it one step further, we really don't have anyone lined up for next year when he retires. I know most look only at this year, but you know I kindof look at things a bit differently. I would have liked to see someone in there this year watching the big fella so they wouldn't have to go it alone next year without the benifit of watching him work his craft.

    I would agree with you but Pat sat out ALOT last year

    Jimmy filled in nicely at NT.. If Pat is out for 4 games I don't think Jimmy would be THAT much of drop off
    JK took 275 snaps last year.
    Phat Pat took 494 last year and 550 the year before and 585 the year before that.
    K-dub took 871 last year and 939 the year before and 635 the year before that.

    Phat Pat isn't taking alot of Reps off my friend. I would venture to say that he is on almost every running play with the predominance of his snaps off being those related to situations were a pass is more likely to be called.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
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    Re:Insider: The risk-reward of drafting RBs

    Marrdro wrote:
    V4L wrote:
    I would agree with you but Pat sat out ALOT last year

    Jimmy filled in nicely at NT.. If Pat is out for 4 games I don't think Jimmy would be THAT much of drop off
    JK took 275 snaps last year.
    Phat Pat took 494 last year and 550 the year before and 585 the year before that.
    K-dub took 871 last year and 939 the year before and 635 the year before that.

    Phat Pat isn't taking alot of Reps off my friend. I would venture to say that he is on almost every running play with the predominance of his snaps off being those related to situations were a pass is more likely to be called.
    What constitutes 'a lot' is pretty subjective.

    Just to start, the difference in 56 snaps could be considered a lot by some, or insignificant by others. He played in 15 games during the regular season in 2009, just 14 in 2008. So you're actually looking at a drop from about 61% of all snaps and 39 snaps per game to 54% of all snaps and 33 per game.

    I tend to think that's not a big deal. With those numbers Pat Williams is probably in there on almost all running downs. We'll see what happens this year though.

    Also, I wouldn't trust the profootballfocus numbers from 2007. It appears as only part of the season has been recorded/scored. As such it is difficult to say whether it is accurate, and it is surely not complete.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  8. #18
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Insider: The risk-reward of drafting RBs

    Overlord wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    V4L wrote:
    I would agree with you but Pat sat out ALOT last year

    Jimmy filled in nicely at NT.. If Pat is out for 4 games I don't think Jimmy would be THAT much of drop off
    JK took 275 snaps last year.
    Phat Pat took 494 last year and 550 the year before and 585 the year before that.
    K-dub took 871 last year and 939 the year before and 635 the year before that.

    Phat Pat isn't taking alot of Reps off my friend. I would venture to say that he is on almost every running play with the predominance of his snaps off being those related to situations were a pass is more likely to be called.
    What constitutes 'a lot' is pretty subjective.

    Just to start, the difference in 56 snaps could be considered a lot by some, or insignificant by others. He played in 15 games during the regular season in 2009, just 14 in 2008. So you're actually looking at a drop from about 61% of all snaps and 39 snaps per game to 54% of all snaps and 33 per game.

    I tend to think that's not a big deal. With those numbers Pat Williams is probably in there on almost all running downs. We'll see what happens this year though.

    Also, I wouldn't trust the profootballfocus numbers from 2007. It appears as only part of the season has been recorded/scored. As such it is difficult to say whether it is accurate, and it is surely not complete.
    Good point on the 2007 numbers. They readily admit that some of thier stuff is a bit sketchy there as they were just getting up and running.

    What would be interesting is if they could break it down by type of play (run vs pass) and mix in another stat (score vs time left on clock). That way you could get a good feel for what teams were doing based on situation (passing increases when behind with limited time).

    On a side note, I still can't find the stuff on Cook but believe it was during the Rams game he came in on running plays and not just in mop up duties.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #19
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    Re:Insider: The risk-reward of drafting RBs

    Marrdro wrote:
    What would be interesting is if they could break it down by type of play (run vs pass) and mix in another stat (score vs time left on clock). That way you could get a good feel for what teams were doing based on situation (passing increases when behind with limited time).
    I took another look, and they do break it down actually. If you go the 'defensive snap summary' in the drop down menu for the player.

    Here's the breakdown for Pat Williams in 2009 (link) and 2008 (link):

    -In 2009, 285 run plays, 283 pass plays, 2 pass coverage plays (includes playoffs, 17 total games).
    -In 2008, 264 run plays, 284 pass plays, 2 pass coverage plays (does not include playoffs, 14 total games).

    That indicates a slight tendency more towards the run in 2009. Not huge, but there.

    Keep in mind that teams favor the pass against the Vikings pretty severely. In 2009, opponents threw it 33.4 times/game and ran it 22.3 times/game. In 2008, opponents threw it 33.1 times/game and ran it 23.2 times/game.

    So Pat being in there for as many running plays as passing plays indicates a clear preference for running situations.

    On a side note, I still can't find the stuff on Cook but believe it was during the Rams game he came in on running plays and not just in mop up duties.
    The Vikings beat the Rams 38-10. Ryan Cook appeared for the last 9 Viking offensive snaps at left guard (link).
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  10. #20
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Insider: The risk-reward of drafting RBs

    Overlord wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    What would be interesting is if they could break it down by type of play (run vs pass) and mix in another stat (score vs time left on clock). That way you could get a good feel for what teams were doing based on situation (passing increases when behind with limited time).
    I took another look, and they do break it down actually. If you go the 'defensive snap summary' in the drop down menu for the player.

    Here's the breakdown for Pat Williams in 2009 (link) and 2008 (link):

    -In 2009, 285 run plays, 283 pass plays, 2 pass coverage plays (includes playoffs, 17 total games).
    -In 2008, 264 run plays, 284 pass plays, 2 pass coverage plays (does not include playoffs, 14 total games).

    That indicates a slight tendency more towards the run in 2009. Not huge, but there.

    Keep in mind that teams favor the pass against the Vikings pretty severely. In 2009, opponents threw it 33.4 times/game and ran it 22.3 times/game. In 2008, opponents threw it 33.1 times/game and ran it 23.2 times/game.

    So Pat being in there for as many running plays as passing plays indicates a clear preference for running situations.

    On a side note, I still can't find the stuff on Cook but believe it was during the Rams game he came in on running plays and not just in mop up duties.
    The Vikings beat the Rams 38-10. Ryan Cook appeared for the last 9 Viking offensive snaps at left guard (link).
    I think I need to spend some more time on that site.

    You found that by going to Team and then clicking on the "Player Participation" link. Never saw that before.

    Standby.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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