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  1. #51
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Do you think Childress and Spileman sit gameplanning together? Not a chance. Spielman has nothing to do with the x's and o's. His job is to help on the back end of things.
    Of course I don't. Show me one place were I ever said anything that resembles Ricky Boy dictating actual play on the field.

    When the players are on the roster, they are the Chillers, and the Chillers alone, unless of course they have an injury.

    Then the Medical cats have more say with respect to who plays and who doesn't.

    But it doesn't mean that Ricky boy doesn't spend time on the field (or in his little sky box) watching the product and following up with the Coaching staff with respect to talent, and if they meet the coaching staffs requirements.
    I'm not saying you said that. I'm using that point in my reasoning. Chilly is the one who sees these guys on a daily basis. He's the one who comes up with the schemes. He's the one that requests a certain type of player From Spielman, not the other way around.

    I think Caine hit it dead on the head. They do all have a say. (I still don't think Rob has a say in the actual player selection, but he has to make sure they can afford his contract. Two different things) Ultimately, every decision goes through Childress. We know from the Favre situation, that Spielman can say no, Childress can say yes and we still get him. I'm willing to bet it works the other way around, Spielman can say yes, Childress says no and he probably won't be here.
    What do you think the Chiller said about Sage?

    He might have said yes, eventually, but I bet it wasn't a resounding yes. Why else would 2 other QB's beat him out on the depth chart?
    An interesting point. I"m willing to bet he said OK though.

    Also, like I mentioned before, I have a feeling that trades are where Spielman has more say. But I'm willing to bet Chilly signed off on it. At the time we had what, TJ? We didn't have Booty yet, and having TJ with no depth isn't very promising, especially since he has yet to play a full season. At best, we have a new starter, at worst, we have a veteran backup for TJ. We weren't even in the whole Favre situation yet. Favre's an easy choice for starter once he was on the team, and I have a feeling, that TJ as a #2 was a purely developmental choice, and not a skill-based choice.
    They wanted TJ to develop as fast as possible and take advantage of Favre being there. They knew Sage wasn't getting any better, so wasted no time on him. Again, just my opinion.
    Agree on all counts, except you kindof missed my point.

    If they were going to bring in the Noodle, why did they bother with Sage?

    Don't for one minute think that when they went after Sage, they didn't know they were gonna get the Noodle.
    Why wouldn't I?

    February 28, 2009: ESPN reports Sage Rosenfels traded to the Vikings

    April 29, 2009: STrib reports Brett Favre is released from Jets.

    Two months passed between the aquisition of Sage and the release of Favre, who still claimed he was retired at that point.

    So why would they think they woudl be getting Favre exactly? Unless they had inside information that he woudl become a Viking somehow, while under contract with the Jets, which last I checked was tampering.
    As if they didn't tamper with Noodle in the past.
    So let me get this straight.

    Their strategy was tampering, then hoping that a retired QB would come out of retirement and join the Vikings?

    And you are defending that? Claiming its a good choice?
    Of course I'm not defending it, but I'm not turning a blind eye to it either.

    I am still 100% convinced that this staff wanted to bring the Noodle in for the 2008 season. Because they got caught with thier fingers in the cookie jar, that didn't happen.

    On a side note, I'm not 100% convinced that the Noodles arm popping was the reason he was released either. I think that was just another "Ankle" type situation that helped delay his appearance in camp.

    Think about it, why in the hell would a staff keep running a QB out there if his arm wasn't sound? The Jets released him and moved on because he flat out sucked for them coming down the stretch. Nothing more, nothing less.
    You really believe that don't you. Fact is, they played him because they had nobody else to play. Favre wouldn't come out, and the coaches really didn't do anything to stop him from playing. They didn't want to be known as the guy who shattered his chance at the all-time start record.

    Again, basing your personell moves on a guy you HOPE will be released and you HOPE will join your team is not a very smart maneuver.
    1: Favre's arm injury, coupled with teh Jets poor finish in '08, is why Favre retired. He had ZERO interest in going through that hell again. He hadn't wanted to go to NY in the first place, and the added frustration of learning a new system pushed him to retire again.

    On NY's part, They weren't so heavily invested in Favre that they couldn't release him, and I doubt he'd have gotten the surgery to come back had they kept him. They simply bowed to the inevitable.

    2: That said, I do believe that Chiller had hoped to get Favre in 08. Was there "tampering"? Maybe. But Ted Thompson was willing to trash Favre's rep, and Favre wasn't willing to play dirty, so Thomnpson won. Once that trade happened, I think Chiller might have cried himself to sleep.

    3: Rosenfels was NOT Chillers idea. I agree with Marrdro that Spielman brought Rosenfels in - probably to address teh QB issue everyone sees but Chiller. Problem is, Rosenfels isn't much better than Jackson, so Chiller was able to salvage his project.

    In an ironic twist, I also believe that the crappy performances by both QB's prompted Chiller to return to the phones and beg Brett to come back. I believe that Chiller figured that a "noodle armed" Favre was still better than what he had on the roster - and he would have been right. Fortunately, Favre had the arm fixed, and the rest is history.

    4: Rule by Committee NEVER works. EVER!!! The truth is, someone has to lead. Who is the most logical person to take the lead in player acquisitions? The guy sitting in an office, or the guy on the field?

    If we had a GM, I would expect THAT person to have a greater input...but we don't. As I said before, I believe that Spielman and his people may help narrow the field, but I believe that it is the Chiller who ultimately decides who we pick up and who we pass on. And I beleive that whenever Ricky BVoy gets his knickers ina wad and tries to pull a fast one, Chiller shuts him down.

    Want proof? Who had the better Preseason? Rosenfels or Jackson? On this forum, the results were pretty evenly split, with a slight lean in Sage's favor...but Sage isn't Chiller's boy, he's Ricky's. That's why Jackson was #2 behind Favre, and that's why Jackson is the starter if Favre goes down or doesn't come back. NOT because he's BETTER - because he hasn't EVER been the BEST QB on our roster - but because he's CHILLER'S boy.

    ...all three say yes or no my ass.... Chiller makes the calls. Always has.

    Caine

  2. #52
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Do you think Childress and Spileman sit gameplanning together? Not a chance. Spielman has nothing to do with the x's and o's. His job is to help on the back end of things.
    Of course I don't. Show me one place were I ever said anything that resembles Ricky Boy dictating actual play on the field.

    When the players are on the roster, they are the Chillers, and the Chillers alone, unless of course they have an injury.

    Then the Medical cats have more say with respect to who plays and who doesn't.

    But it doesn't mean that Ricky boy doesn't spend time on the field (or in his little sky box) watching the product and following up with the Coaching staff with respect to talent, and if they meet the coaching staffs requirements.
    I'm not saying you said that. I'm using that point in my reasoning. Chilly is the one who sees these guys on a daily basis. He's the one who comes up with the schemes. He's the one that requests a certain type of player From Spielman, not the other way around.

    I think Caine hit it dead on the head. They do all have a say. (I still don't think Rob has a say in the actual player selection, but he has to make sure they can afford his contract. Two different things) Ultimately, every decision goes through Childress. We know from the Favre situation, that Spielman can say no, Childress can say yes and we still get him. I'm willing to bet it works the other way around, Spielman can say yes, Childress says no and he probably won't be here.
    What do you think the Chiller said about Sage?

    He might have said yes, eventually, but I bet it wasn't a resounding yes. Why else would 2 other QB's beat him out on the depth chart?
    An interesting point. I"m willing to bet he said OK though.

    Also, like I mentioned before, I have a feeling that trades are where Spielman has more say. But I'm willing to bet Chilly signed off on it. At the time we had what, TJ? We didn't have Booty yet, and having TJ with no depth isn't very promising, especially since he has yet to play a full season. At best, we have a new starter, at worst, we have a veteran backup for TJ. We weren't even in the whole Favre situation yet. Favre's an easy choice for starter once he was on the team, and I have a feeling, that TJ as a #2 was a purely developmental choice, and not a skill-based choice.
    They wanted TJ to develop as fast as possible and take advantage of Favre being there. They knew Sage wasn't getting any better, so wasted no time on him. Again, just my opinion.
    Agree on all counts, except you kindof missed my point.

    If they were going to bring in the Noodle, why did they bother with Sage?

    Don't for one minute think that when they went after Sage, they didn't know they were gonna get the Noodle.
    Why wouldn't I?

    February 28, 2009: ESPN reports Sage Rosenfels traded to the Vikings

    April 29, 2009: STrib reports Brett Favre is released from Jets.

    Two months passed between the aquisition of Sage and the release of Favre, who still claimed he was retired at that point.

    So why would they think they woudl be getting Favre exactly? Unless they had inside information that he woudl become a Viking somehow, while under contract with the Jets, which last I checked was tampering.
    As if they didn't tamper with Noodle in the past.
    So let me get this straight.

    Their strategy was tampering, then hoping that a retired QB would come out of retirement and join the Vikings?

    And you are defending that? Claiming its a good choice?
    Of course I'm not defending it, but I'm not turning a blind eye to it either.

    I am still 100% convinced that this staff wanted to bring the Noodle in for the 2008 season. Because they got caught with thier fingers in the cookie jar, that didn't happen.

    On a side note, I'm not 100% convinced that the Noodles arm popping was the reason he was released either. I think that was just another "Ankle" type situation that helped delay his appearance in camp.

    Think about it, why in the hell would a staff keep running a QB out there if his arm wasn't sound? The Jets released him and moved on because he flat out sucked for them coming down the stretch. Nothing more, nothing less.
    You really believe that don't you. Fact is, they played him because they had nobody else to play. Favre wouldn't come out, and the coaches really didn't do anything to stop him from playing. They didn't want to be known as the guy who shattered his chance at the all-time start record.

    Again, basing your personell moves on a guy you HOPE will be released and you HOPE will join your team is not a very smart maneuver.
    I usually mean what I say on here, unless of course I am just trying to push a button so that a conversation will ensue....
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #53
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    Caine wrote:
    ...all three say yes or no my ass.... Chiller makes the calls. Always has.

    Caine
    My only allie with respect to getting rid of the Triadthingamajib, for a true GM, is warming to it.

    Alas, all is lost my friends. All is lost.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #54
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    Marrdro wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    ...all three say yes or no my ass.... Chiller makes the calls. Always has.

    Caine
    My only allie with respect to getting rid of the Triadthingamajib, for a true GM, is warming to it.

    Alas, all is lost my friends. All is lost.
    Nope - I'd still rather get a real GM in here...hell, Make Chiller GM...then we can get a real HC in here...

    B)

    I'm just saying, however, that Chiller is the one responsible for the players - who we get, who we keep, who plays, etc. Rob tells him if we can afford it, Rick tells him who's available, Zygi tells him, "hey, next game can I get a headset that I can wear in the suite so I can call a couple plays too?"

    But Chiller makes the calls....even the bad ones.

    Caine

  5. #55
    Big C2 is offline Training Camp
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    I don't agree with Schwartz being on the hot seat. He has the talent to get at least 6 wins this year.

    As for the Chiller, I am on the baldy bandwagon. Yes he's made some mistakes, but the team has steadily improved under his tenure. Given below is a list of new head coaches from 2006 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2277844):

    Dick Jauron - Canned
    Rod Marinelli - Canned
    Mike McCarthy - 2 playoffs including 1 NFC title game
    Gary Kubiak - Canned
    Herm Edwards - Canned
    Brad Childress - 2 playoffs including 1 NFC title game
    Sean Payton - 2 playoffs including 1 Super Bowl and 1 NFC title game
    Eric Mangini - Canned
    Art Shell - Canned
    Scott Linehan - Canned

    So Chilly is in the same ballpark as McCarthy and Payton. However both McCarthy and Payton had pro-bowl QBs from the start of their careers. Brees, Favre and Rodgers have been a huge part of their teams success.

    When Chiller had Favre to even the playing field, the Vikes were better than BOTH the Saints (despite losing) and Packers. That proves that the rest of the roster, offensive and defensive schemes and coaching staff he put in place have worked.

    So, for the time-being Baldy is the man .
    None

  6. #56
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    Big C2 wrote:
    I don't agree with Schwartz being on the hot seat. He has the talent to get at least 6 wins this year.

    As for the Chiller, I am on the baldy bandwagon. Yes he's made some mistakes, but the team has steadily improved under his tenure. Given below is a list of new head coaches from 2006 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2277844):

    Dick Jauron - Canned
    Rod Marinelli - Canned
    Mike McCarthy - 2 playoffs including 1 NFC title game
    Gary Kubiak - Canned
    Herm Edwards - Canned
    Brad Childress - 2 playoffs including 1 NFC title game
    Sean Payton - 2 playoffs including 1 Super Bowl and 1 NFC title game
    Eric Mangini - Canned
    Art Shell - Canned
    Scott Linehan - Canned

    So Chilly is in the same ballpark as McCarthy and Payton. However both McCarthy and Payton had pro-bowl QBs from the start of their careers. Brees, Favre and Rodgers have been a huge part of their teams success.

    When Chiller had Favre to even the playing field, the Vikes were better than BOTH the Saints (despite losing) and Packers. That proves that the rest of the roster, offensive and defensive schemes and coaching staff he put in place have worked.

    So, for the time-being Baldy is the man .
    Theres a eye opening thread........

    Top shelf my friend. Top shelf indeed.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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