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  1. #11
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    No hot seat discussions this year about the Chiller I see. :cheer:
    Chiller has been on the hot seat twice with fans/writers, but I don't think he has been in Zygi's doghouse ever.

    The first time, Adrian Peterson bailed him out - our offense couldn't score, and Peterson came in and blew teams up. That got us to 8-8.

    The second time was last season, when questions about the horrible hole at QB (Jackson vs Rosenfels) had everyone wondering how Chiller was going to get this team over the hump to actually win a play-off game. He saved himself by begging Favre to come out of retirement, and Favre tore up the league.

    Right now, odds are that Favre is coming back. By itself, that makes us the odds on favorite to win the NFCN again, and challange for a shot at the Superbowl. Coaches in that position don't get "Hot seat" treatment.

    However, if Favre doesn't come back - or, if he gets hurt for a long period of time and the team falls back to the 8-8 area, or sputters out early, the pressure will be on Chiller to fix the problem ASAP - and he would then be on the hot seat the following season (From fans and writers).

    With Wilf, it's different. Chiller allows Wilf to feel involved and important...as long as he does that, Wilf will back him.

    Caine
    I agree with this post.

    My issue with the team, a bit is Chilly, but I've said it before, it all starts at the top.

    IMO, Zygi is a great guy to own a team, he's not cheap, and can afford to get things done on the business end. However, he should have no involvement whatsoever on the football end of things. He was never a football guy, and should not have a part of it aside from hiring/firing coaches. He needs to sit Chilly down and tell him to make sure he has his shit together(and I suspect he has, which prompted TJ to be benched and Frerotte to start a couple years ago). Instead, we sign Favre (Good move IMO), but as soon as Favre almost singlehandedly wins a few games, bringing us from a decent record to a great record, Zygi gives him an extension. Poor, poor decision I think.

    With this extension, what has Chilli done? Absolutely nothing. He's relaxed, and no longer feels the pressure to perform because he has a bit of job security.

    A great example of htis was the draft. We ignored some obvious holes that will be coming in the next couple years, and instead opted to trade down, yet somehow come out with fewer picks (that in itself still amazes me) and draft BPA.

    If Chilly was on his last year of the contract, I have no doubt he would have gone after a QB, he would have possibly traded up to get an impact player, such as maybe Weatherspoon or a top S/CB.

    Instead, he knows he now has time on his side, and is willing to take what he gets and see how it goes.

    Some questions, I'd be curious to hear answers: If Chilly's job wasn't on the line, would he have:
    Sat TJ and played Frerotte? I don't think so
    Drafted Harvin? Again, I don't see him taking that risk
    Signed Favre? Maybe, maybe not. Hard to say.


    The thing is, he's taken some awful big risks prior to his extension, knowing he either has to fix the team, or he's out. Its win-win for him. If he fixes the team temporarily(he has), he gets to keep his job. If those risks blow up in his face, he faces the same fate he would have anyway, he's gone and someone else has to clean up his mess.

    I'm going out on a limb here, but I doubt we see any rediculous trades the next couple of years, I doubt we see many high profile signings.
    Not a big limb to go out on, especially when you consider that the Chiller doesn't do any of those things you just mentioned.

    If I'm not mistaken, the VP of Player Personnel is the cat who does all that player aquisition stuff.
    I'm sure it's a combined effort.

    Chilly has been saved by the right picks/aquisitions at the right time to help the team to the next level. AD and Favre both took the team to a level, with minimal Chilly coaching needed.

    But I think Chilly has taken some risks in this years draft, because he's got the extension.

    The trade down forced them to take Cook which is not as clear a winner as Robinson. Bigger upside if his size is put to the right use.

    Toby isn't a clear 3rd down back for CT, they are banking on his unproven hands.

    Griffen's motor is still up in the air, until proven it runs all the time.

    The rest of the draft has potential with glaring weaknesses.

    Webb looks like the one with the highest upside, but the transition may be too much to make the squad this year and if his pre-season work looks good enough not to make the PS, he's gone.

    For Chilly to survive the next few years, he will have to solve the QB issue, without Wilf paying through the nose again like he did for Favre.
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  2. #12
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    Marrdro wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    No hot seat discussions this year about the Chiller I see. :cheer:
    Chiller has been on the hot seat twice with fans/writers, but I don't think he has been in Zygi's doghouse ever.

    The first time, Adrian Peterson bailed him out - our offense couldn't score, and Peterson came in and blew teams up. That got us to 8-8.

    The second time was last season, when questions about the horrible hole at QB (Jackson vs Rosenfels) had everyone wondering how Chiller was going to get this team over the hump to actually win a play-off game. He saved himself by begging Favre to come out of retirement, and Favre tore up the league.

    Right now, odds are that Favre is coming back. By itself, that makes us the odds on favorite to win the NFCN again, and challange for a shot at the Superbowl. Coaches in that position don't get "Hot seat" treatment.

    However, if Favre doesn't come back - or, if he gets hurt for a long period of time and the team falls back to the 8-8 area, or sputters out early, the pressure will be on Chiller to fix the problem ASAP - and he would then be on the hot seat the following season (From fans and writers).

    With Wilf, it's different. Chiller allows Wilf to feel involved and important...as long as he does that, Wilf will back him.

    Caine
    Or....the staff could be right about TJ and he comes in and plays better than he did the year before, just as he has done each and every year.

    If that happens, and I think it will, I believe people will move on to something else to harp on the guy for.
    The notion that Jackson has done better every year is a wee bit subjective. And, even if true, the fact is that he hasn't played enough better to be a viable starter based upon what we've seen to date.

    Further, I tend to be one who believes that "the staff is right" which is why they sought to REPLACE Jackson...

    I assume by the "If it happens" you're implying that Jackson will eventually start and play well...that's a stretch. As for people harping on him - if he started producing instead of riding the coat tails of Peterson and the Defense, people would line up behind him. This is evidenced by the FACT that even with substandard play, Viking fans have supported him. Viking fans are SO desperate for a quality QB that they will accept even a remote approximation of one - ala Frerotte - and cheer their eyes out. If Jackson ever started playing worth pooh, people would quickly fall in line.

    As for other comments - I doubt we'll see too much heavy FA action or big trades because we simply don't NEED them. I condemn Chiller for very specific reasons, but TEAM building isn't one of them. He and the FO have put some quality players on the field...except for...well...you know...

    Finally, Marrdro, Chiller most certainly has a great deal to do with who is and isn't added to our roster. With no GM, don't for a second fool yourself into thinking that Chiller just gets what he gets...he has a more than active role in the entire process. That's why he gets to be blamed when the process goes awry.

    Caine

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    No hot seat discussions this year about the Chiller I see. :cheer:
    Chiller has been on the hot seat twice with fans/writers, but I don't think he has been in Zygi's doghouse ever.

    The first time, Adrian Peterson bailed him out - our offense couldn't score, and Peterson came in and blew teams up. That got us to 8-8.

    The second time was last season, when questions about the horrible hole at QB (Jackson vs Rosenfels) had everyone wondering how Chiller was going to get this team over the hump to actually win a play-off game. He saved himself by begging Favre to come out of retirement, and Favre tore up the league.

    Right now, odds are that Favre is coming back. By itself, that makes us the odds on favorite to win the NFCN again, and challange for a shot at the Superbowl. Coaches in that position don't get "Hot seat" treatment.

    However, if Favre doesn't come back - or, if he gets hurt for a long period of time and the team falls back to the 8-8 area, or sputters out early, the pressure will be on Chiller to fix the problem ASAP - and he would then be on the hot seat the following season (From fans and writers).

    With Wilf, it's different. Chiller allows Wilf to feel involved and important...as long as he does that, Wilf will back him.

    Caine
    I agree with this post.

    My issue with the team, a bit is Chilly, but I've said it before, it all starts at the top.

    IMO, Zygi is a great guy to own a team, he's not cheap, and can afford to get things done on the business end. However, he should have no involvement whatsoever on the football end of things. He was never a football guy, and should not have a part of it aside from hiring/firing coaches. He needs to sit Chilly down and tell him to make sure he has his shit together(and I suspect he has, which prompted TJ to be benched and Frerotte to start a couple years ago). Instead, we sign Favre (Good move IMO), but as soon as Favre almost singlehandedly wins a few games, bringing us from a decent record to a great record, Zygi gives him an extension. Poor, poor decision I think.

    With this extension, what has Chilli done? Absolutely nothing. He's relaxed, and no longer feels the pressure to perform because he has a bit of job security.

    A great example of htis was the draft. We ignored some obvious holes that will be coming in the next couple years, and instead opted to trade down, yet somehow come out with fewer picks (that in itself still amazes me) and draft BPA.

    If Chilly was on his last year of the contract, I have no doubt he would have gone after a QB, he would have possibly traded up to get an impact player, such as maybe Weatherspoon or a top S/CB.

    Instead, he knows he now has time on his side, and is willing to take what he gets and see how it goes.

    Some questions, I'd be curious to hear answers: If Chilly's job wasn't on the line, would he have:
    Sat TJ and played Frerotte? I don't think so
    Drafted Harvin? Again, I don't see him taking that risk
    Signed Favre? Maybe, maybe not. Hard to say.


    The thing is, he's taken some awful big risks prior to his extension, knowing he either has to fix the team, or he's out. Its win-win for him. If he fixes the team temporarily(he has), he gets to keep his job. If those risks blow up in his face, he faces the same fate he would have anyway, he's gone and someone else has to clean up his mess.

    I'm going out on a limb here, but I doubt we see any rediculous trades the next couple of years, I doubt we see many high profile signings.
    Not a big limb to go out on, especially when you consider that the Chiller doesn't do any of those things you just mentioned.

    If I'm not mistaken, the VP of Player Personnel is the cat who does all that player aquisition stuff.
    I'm curious... when they interview rookies, who do they say they talk to on the phone? The coach.

    When FA's come for a visit, who takes them for dinner? The Coach

    When Favre was available, who actively pursued him, despite the VP of player personell being skeptical? The coach

    When Harvin had all the negative rap on him, who personally flew down to visit and see what he was about? The coach.

    Yes, Ricky is active in it, but I'm willing to be if Chilly says "No, we need to go this direction", Rick will listen.
    Obviously you don't follow the draft much. In most cases its the GM or even the owner who calls, talks to the player first and then the coach gets on.

    As to the Chiller giving direction? Do we have to say it again, yes, I am sure they both talk about this stuff and yes Spielman will listen, but in the end, they stay true to thier board and Ricky boy drafts the next best one on it.

    Quick question.....When the Tuna said the following...."If they expect me to cook the dinner, you would think they would at least let me pick out some of the groceries"......What do you think that meant?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #14
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    No hot seat discussions this year about the Chiller I see. :cheer:
    Chiller has been on the hot seat twice with fans/writers, but I don't think he has been in Zygi's doghouse ever.

    The first time, Adrian Peterson bailed him out - our offense couldn't score, and Peterson came in and blew teams up. That got us to 8-8.

    The second time was last season, when questions about the horrible hole at QB (Jackson vs Rosenfels) had everyone wondering how Chiller was going to get this team over the hump to actually win a play-off game. He saved himself by begging Favre to come out of retirement, and Favre tore up the league.

    Right now, odds are that Favre is coming back. By itself, that makes us the odds on favorite to win the NFCN again, and challange for a shot at the Superbowl. Coaches in that position don't get "Hot seat" treatment.

    However, if Favre doesn't come back - or, if he gets hurt for a long period of time and the team falls back to the 8-8 area, or sputters out early, the pressure will be on Chiller to fix the problem ASAP - and he would then be on the hot seat the following season (From fans and writers).

    With Wilf, it's different. Chiller allows Wilf to feel involved and important...as long as he does that, Wilf will back him.

    Caine
    I agree with this post.

    My issue with the team, a bit is Chilly, but I've said it before, it all starts at the top.

    IMO, Zygi is a great guy to own a team, he's not cheap, and can afford to get things done on the business end. However, he should have no involvement whatsoever on the football end of things. He was never a football guy, and should not have a part of it aside from hiring/firing coaches. He needs to sit Chilly down and tell him to make sure he has his shit together(and I suspect he has, which prompted TJ to be benched and Frerotte to start a couple years ago). Instead, we sign Favre (Good move IMO), but as soon as Favre almost singlehandedly wins a few games, bringing us from a decent record to a great record, Zygi gives him an extension. Poor, poor decision I think.

    With this extension, what has Chilli done? Absolutely nothing. He's relaxed, and no longer feels the pressure to perform because he has a bit of job security.

    A great example of htis was the draft. We ignored some obvious holes that will be coming in the next couple years, and instead opted to trade down, yet somehow come out with fewer picks (that in itself still amazes me) and draft BPA.

    If Chilly was on his last year of the contract, I have no doubt he would have gone after a QB, he would have possibly traded up to get an impact player, such as maybe Weatherspoon or a top S/CB.

    Instead, he knows he now has time on his side, and is willing to take what he gets and see how it goes.

    Some questions, I'd be curious to hear answers: If Chilly's job wasn't on the line, would he have:
    Sat TJ and played Frerotte? I don't think so
    Drafted Harvin? Again, I don't see him taking that risk
    Signed Favre? Maybe, maybe not. Hard to say.


    The thing is, he's taken some awful big risks prior to his extension, knowing he either has to fix the team, or he's out. Its win-win for him. If he fixes the team temporarily(he has), he gets to keep his job. If those risks blow up in his face, he faces the same fate he would have anyway, he's gone and someone else has to clean up his mess.

    I'm going out on a limb here, but I doubt we see any rediculous trades the next couple of years, I doubt we see many high profile signings.
    Not a big limb to go out on, especially when you consider that the Chiller doesn't do any of those things you just mentioned.

    If I'm not mistaken, the VP of Player Personnel is the cat who does all that player aquisition stuff.
    I'm curious... when they interview rookies, who do they say they talk to on the phone? The coach.

    When FA's come for a visit, who takes them for dinner? The Coach

    When Favre was available, who actively pursued him, despite the VP of player personell being skeptical? The coach

    When Harvin had all the negative rap on him, who personally flew down to visit and see what he was about? The coach.

    Yes, Ricky is active in it, but I'm willing to be if Chilly says "No, we need to go this direction", Rick will listen.
    Obviously you don't follow the draft much. In most cases its the GM or even the owner who calls, talks to the player first and then the coach gets on.

    As to the Chiller giving direction? Do we have to say it again, yes, I am sure they both talk about this stuff and yes Spielman will listen, but in the end, they stay true to thier board and Ricky boy drafts the next best one on it.

    Quick question.....When the Tuna said the following...."If they expect me to cook the dinner, you would think they would at least let me pick out some of the groceries"......What do you think that meant?
    Funny you mention the Tuna, because last I checked he was a GM. We lack a GM, therefore the responsibility falls between Chilly, Rick and Wilf. And I can almost guarantee Chilly has more say than anybody else.

    Do you find it odd Chilly always seems to get 'his guys'.

    I'm sure Rick doesn't have an overwhelming urge to sign ex-eagles all the time, but Chilly brings it up, Rick says OK, that seems reasonable, and Wilf says "I like football?"

    Even when Rick doesn't like the guy, Chilly seems to get him anyway (See: Favre) How do you explain that one.

  5. #15
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    Caine wrote:
    The notion that Jackson has done better every year is a wee bit subjective. And, even if true, the fact is that he hasn't played enough better to be a viable starter based upon what we've seen to date.

    Further, I tend to be one who believes that "the staff is right" which is why they sought to REPLACE Jackson...
    How has he been replaced? Only the most optismistic would have thought he would have been ready sooner rather than later.

    Unless I'm mistaken, he is still the number 2 Qb on this roster and next in line if/when the Noodle goes down or doesn't show up.

    I assume by the "If it happens" you're implying that Jackson will eventually start and play well...that's a stretch. As for people harping on him - if he started producing instead of riding the coat tails of Peterson and the Defense, people would line up behind him. This is evidenced by the FACT that even with substandard play, Viking fans have supported him. Viking fans are SO desperate for a quality QB that they will accept even a remote approximation of one - ala Frerotte - and cheer their eyes out. If Jackson ever started playing worth pooh, people would quickly fall in line.
    He's gonna play alright.

    Starting out in Pre-season, he will get the lions share of the reps, first, cause the Noodle doesn't think he needs to be here, second, they will want to limit the Noodles reps and risk of injury in meaningless games.

    On a side note, I bet that if the Noodle resorts back to his Noodle ways and starts chucking INT's all over the place, the Chiller will pull his ass. Heck, he almost did last year.

    Won't that be a big shock/suprise throughtout the football nation. hmy:

    As for other comments - I doubt we'll see too much heavy FA action or big trades because we simply don't NEED them. I condemn Chiller for very specific reasons, but TEAM building isn't one of them. He and the FO have put some quality players on the field...except for...well...you know...

    Finally, Marrdro, Chiller most certainly has a great deal to do with who is and isn't added to our roster. With no GM, don't for a second fool yourself into thinking that Chiller just gets what he gets...he has a more than active role in the entire process. That's why he gets to be blamed when the process goes awry.

    Caine
    Show me one place were I have said he doesn't have a role. Truth of the matter is, I have repeatedly said that in this Triadthingamajib he has more say than most HC's. But when push comes to shove, I give the biggest share of credit to how this team has been built to the VP of Player Personnel (Our GM like person) and the scouting staffs that work for him.

    Quick question......Who got fired, under this regime, for that last time the draft went awry? It wasn't the HC my friend. It was the guy in charge of the draft.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #16
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    No hot seat discussions this year about the Chiller I see. :cheer:
    Chiller has been on the hot seat twice with fans/writers, but I don't think he has been in Zygi's doghouse ever.

    The first time, Adrian Peterson bailed him out - our offense couldn't score, and Peterson came in and blew teams up. That got us to 8-8.

    The second time was last season, when questions about the horrible hole at QB (Jackson vs Rosenfels) had everyone wondering how Chiller was going to get this team over the hump to actually win a play-off game. He saved himself by begging Favre to come out of retirement, and Favre tore up the league.

    Right now, odds are that Favre is coming back. By itself, that makes us the odds on favorite to win the NFCN again, and challange for a shot at the Superbowl. Coaches in that position don't get "Hot seat" treatment.

    However, if Favre doesn't come back - or, if he gets hurt for a long period of time and the team falls back to the 8-8 area, or sputters out early, the pressure will be on Chiller to fix the problem ASAP - and he would then be on the hot seat the following season (From fans and writers).

    With Wilf, it's different. Chiller allows Wilf to feel involved and important...as long as he does that, Wilf will back him.

    Caine
    I agree with this post.

    My issue with the team, a bit is Chilly, but I've said it before, it all starts at the top.

    IMO, Zygi is a great guy to own a team, he's not cheap, and can afford to get things done on the business end. However, he should have no involvement whatsoever on the football end of things. He was never a football guy, and should not have a part of it aside from hiring/firing coaches. He needs to sit Chilly down and tell him to make sure he has his shit together(and I suspect he has, which prompted TJ to be benched and Frerotte to start a couple years ago). Instead, we sign Favre (Good move IMO), but as soon as Favre almost singlehandedly wins a few games, bringing us from a decent record to a great record, Zygi gives him an extension. Poor, poor decision I think.

    With this extension, what has Chilli done? Absolutely nothing. He's relaxed, and no longer feels the pressure to perform because he has a bit of job security.

    A great example of htis was the draft. We ignored some obvious holes that will be coming in the next couple years, and instead opted to trade down, yet somehow come out with fewer picks (that in itself still amazes me) and draft BPA.

    If Chilly was on his last year of the contract, I have no doubt he would have gone after a QB, he would have possibly traded up to get an impact player, such as maybe Weatherspoon or a top S/CB.

    Instead, he knows he now has time on his side, and is willing to take what he gets and see how it goes.

    Some questions, I'd be curious to hear answers: If Chilly's job wasn't on the line, would he have:
    Sat TJ and played Frerotte? I don't think so
    Drafted Harvin? Again, I don't see him taking that risk
    Signed Favre? Maybe, maybe not. Hard to say.


    The thing is, he's taken some awful big risks prior to his extension, knowing he either has to fix the team, or he's out. Its win-win for him. If he fixes the team temporarily(he has), he gets to keep his job. If those risks blow up in his face, he faces the same fate he would have anyway, he's gone and someone else has to clean up his mess.

    I'm going out on a limb here, but I doubt we see any rediculous trades the next couple of years, I doubt we see many high profile signings.
    Not a big limb to go out on, especially when you consider that the Chiller doesn't do any of those things you just mentioned.

    If I'm not mistaken, the VP of Player Personnel is the cat who does all that player aquisition stuff.
    I'm curious... when they interview rookies, who do they say they talk to on the phone? The coach.

    When FA's come for a visit, who takes them for dinner? The Coach

    When Favre was available, who actively pursued him, despite the VP of player personell being skeptical? The coach

    When Harvin had all the negative rap on him, who personally flew down to visit and see what he was about? The coach.

    Yes, Ricky is active in it, but I'm willing to be if Chilly says "No, we need to go this direction", Rick will listen.
    Obviously you don't follow the draft much. In most cases its the GM or even the owner who calls, talks to the player first and then the coach gets on.

    As to the Chiller giving direction? Do we have to say it again, yes, I am sure they both talk about this stuff and yes Spielman will listen, but in the end, they stay true to thier board and Ricky boy drafts the next best one on it.

    Quick question.....When the Tuna said the following...."If they expect me to cook the dinner, you would think they would at least let me pick out some of the groceries"......What do you think that meant?
    Funny you mention the Tuna, because last I checked he was a GM. We lack a GM, therefore the responsibility falls between Chilly, Rick and Wilf. And I can almost guarantee Chilly has more say than anybody else.

    Do you find it odd Chilly always seems to get 'his guys'.

    I'm sure Rick doesn't have an overwhelming urge to sign ex-eagles all the time, but Chilly brings it up, Rick says OK, that seems reasonable, and Wilf says "I like football?"

    Even when Rick doesn't like the guy, Chilly seems to get him anyway (See: Favre) How do you explain that one.
    Do you really think that Sage was a Chiller guy?

    Comeon, Ricky boy has been dragging that guy around with him since he got him in the league.

    And the Tuna isn't a GM right now and wasn't a GM when he said it.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    Marrdro wrote:
    for that last time the draft went awry? It wasn't the HC my friend. It was the guy in charge of the draft.
    Do you even know why he was fired?

  8. #18
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    No hot seat discussions this year about the Chiller I see. :cheer:
    Chiller has been on the hot seat twice with fans/writers, but I don't think he has been in Zygi's doghouse ever.

    The first time, Adrian Peterson bailed him out - our offense couldn't score, and Peterson came in and blew teams up. That got us to 8-8.

    The second time was last season, when questions about the horrible hole at QB (Jackson vs Rosenfels) had everyone wondering how Chiller was going to get this team over the hump to actually win a play-off game. He saved himself by begging Favre to come out of retirement, and Favre tore up the league.

    Right now, odds are that Favre is coming back. By itself, that makes us the odds on favorite to win the NFCN again, and challange for a shot at the Superbowl. Coaches in that position don't get "Hot seat" treatment.

    However, if Favre doesn't come back - or, if he gets hurt for a long period of time and the team falls back to the 8-8 area, or sputters out early, the pressure will be on Chiller to fix the problem ASAP - and he would then be on the hot seat the following season (From fans and writers).

    With Wilf, it's different. Chiller allows Wilf to feel involved and important...as long as he does that, Wilf will back him.

    Caine
    I agree with this post.

    My issue with the team, a bit is Chilly, but I've said it before, it all starts at the top.

    IMO, Zygi is a great guy to own a team, he's not cheap, and can afford to get things done on the business end. However, he should have no involvement whatsoever on the football end of things. He was never a football guy, and should not have a part of it aside from hiring/firing coaches. He needs to sit Chilly down and tell him to make sure he has his shit together(and I suspect he has, which prompted TJ to be benched and Frerotte to start a couple years ago). Instead, we sign Favre (Good move IMO), but as soon as Favre almost singlehandedly wins a few games, bringing us from a decent record to a great record, Zygi gives him an extension. Poor, poor decision I think.

    With this extension, what has Chilli done? Absolutely nothing. He's relaxed, and no longer feels the pressure to perform because he has a bit of job security.

    A great example of htis was the draft. We ignored some obvious holes that will be coming in the next couple years, and instead opted to trade down, yet somehow come out with fewer picks (that in itself still amazes me) and draft BPA.

    If Chilly was on his last year of the contract, I have no doubt he would have gone after a QB, he would have possibly traded up to get an impact player, such as maybe Weatherspoon or a top S/CB.

    Instead, he knows he now has time on his side, and is willing to take what he gets and see how it goes.

    Some questions, I'd be curious to hear answers: If Chilly's job wasn't on the line, would he have:
    Sat TJ and played Frerotte? I don't think so
    Drafted Harvin? Again, I don't see him taking that risk
    Signed Favre? Maybe, maybe not. Hard to say.


    The thing is, he's taken some awful big risks prior to his extension, knowing he either has to fix the team, or he's out. Its win-win for him. If he fixes the team temporarily(he has), he gets to keep his job. If those risks blow up in his face, he faces the same fate he would have anyway, he's gone and someone else has to clean up his mess.

    I'm going out on a limb here, but I doubt we see any rediculous trades the next couple of years, I doubt we see many high profile signings.
    Not a big limb to go out on, especially when you consider that the Chiller doesn't do any of those things you just mentioned.

    If I'm not mistaken, the VP of Player Personnel is the cat who does all that player aquisition stuff.
    I'm curious... when they interview rookies, who do they say they talk to on the phone? The coach.

    When FA's come for a visit, who takes them for dinner? The Coach

    When Favre was available, who actively pursued him, despite the VP of player personell being skeptical? The coach

    When Harvin had all the negative rap on him, who personally flew down to visit and see what he was about? The coach.

    Yes, Ricky is active in it, but I'm willing to be if Chilly says "No, we need to go this direction", Rick will listen.
    Obviously you don't follow the draft much. In most cases its the GM or even the owner who calls, talks to the player first and then the coach gets on.

    As to the Chiller giving direction? Do we have to say it again, yes, I am sure they both talk about this stuff and yes Spielman will listen, but in the end, they stay true to thier board and Ricky boy drafts the next best one on it.

    Quick question.....When the Tuna said the following...."If they expect me to cook the dinner, you would think they would at least let me pick out some of the groceries"......What do you think that meant?
    Funny you mention the Tuna, because last I checked he was a GM. We lack a GM, therefore the responsibility falls between Chilly, Rick and Wilf. And I can almost guarantee Chilly has more say than anybody else.

    Do you find it odd Chilly always seems to get 'his guys'.

    I'm sure Rick doesn't have an overwhelming urge to sign ex-eagles all the time, but Chilly brings it up, Rick says OK, that seems reasonable, and Wilf says "I like football?"

    Even when Rick doesn't like the guy, Chilly seems to get him anyway (See: Favre) How do you explain that one.
    Do you really think that Sage was a Chiller guy?
    I never said Rick has no say. He'll bring up a guy, but I think ultimately, if Chilly says he doesn't want the guy, then we don't get the guy. Chilly's the one who deals wiht the players on a daily basis, not Rick. Chilly comes up with the schemes, not Rick.

    Lets pretend the Vikings org is like any other corporate organization.

    Wilf is the CEO
    Rob is the VP of Finance
    Rick is the head of HR
    Chilly is the departmental manager.

    When you go for interviews for jobs, who do you interview with? Your supervisor/Manager. He determines whether you're someone he can stand to look at every day. He determines whether you have the skills required for the job. The HR guy signs the papers, runs background checks and makes sure there's no red flags. Sometimes the HR guy is a part of the interview, but not always. Sometimes the HR guy will do hires by himself, but its still cleared by the manager.

  9. #19
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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    for that last time the draft went awry? It wasn't the HC my friend. It was the guy in charge of the draft.
    Do you even know why he was fired?
    I know the whole story, I even know what the owner said after the fallout from all of it.

    Do you?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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    Re:If rookies go bust, five NFL coaches could go boom

    also, just to add to that.

    I have the feeling Rick & Rob are more involved in trades than FA signings. Its not really Chilly's department dealing with trades and whatnot. I'd give him Allen and Sage, as he played a huge role in that I'm sure

    however, I'm sure Chilly still has a huge say in the players traded/traded for.

    In the end, it takes the cooperation of all involved.

    Chilly targets/recruits the guys he wants with the ASSISTANCE of scouting staff and Rick. Rick and Chilly work to gether to come up with an arrangement for the player, then its Rob's job to talk contract and salary. Wilf still sits back, unsure if he still likes the Giants or no.

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