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  1. #11
    keystonevike is offline Starter
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    Although, to be fair, Dalton has the advantage of having possibly one of the best receivers in the game, with a serviceable OL and wr depth. And a coach who calls plays to the match teams talent. I'm not sure any rookie QB would succeed their rookie year here. We were that bad last season.

    I'm still not a fan of Kaepernick. He just looks like a punk. I can't take him seriously, He might be more than talented, but I just don't get that 'wow' factor from him. He doesn't pass the eyeball test for what I'd want as a leader of a team. I like his physical abilities, but we'll see how he pans out.
    Good point. After Harvin, the cupboard is bare as far as receivers. But sometimes, when I see these other guys playing I just find myself thinking "We coulda had him". I like Ponder and am giving him the benefit of the doubt, but we do need to put more talent around him (OL, WR) and then see what we got. I'm afraid if he is not the guy, it might set us back a couple of years.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by keystonevike View Post
    Good point. After Harvin, the cupboard is bare as far as receivers. But sometimes, when I see these other guys playing I just find myself thinking "We coulda had him". I like Ponder and am giving him the benefit of the doubt, but we do need to put more talent around him (OL, WR) and then see what we got. I'm afraid if he is not the guy, it might set us back a couple of years.
    Lets stop the madness. Please. The fact that Ponder sucks has no bearing on our Oline. The gave Ponder a clean pocket on Sunday. Were they perfect? Nope but no Oline is. The point is, Sundays blocking was the best it's been all season and the best it's been in a few years. Ponder cannot read a defense quick enough. He locks on to a WR and misses wide open WRs. I don't buy that guys can't get open because I see the RB in the flats open all freaking day. When a WR is open its, late, under thrown, over thrown, thrown out of bounds, thrown in the dirt, or not seen.

    We should sign Alex Smith. What we need is a QB that can make the throws. Smith is as Athletic as Ponder and has done more with less than our Corp.

  3. #13
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    MulletMullitia is offline PP.O Ambassador
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    We're all ignoring the root of the issue: Rick Spielman.

    Once we get rid of him, we can start putting together a winning team. Spielman simply lacks a basic understanding of the game and constantly misses in the draft - just look at the Vikes and Dolphins drafts under his reign. (drafting Harvin and Peterson were no-brainers... but you can point to those as positives if you'd like)
    Well... I've come to the realization that Zygi Wilf is even worse than McCombs in his later years. He's a soft pushover who knows nothing about football. He's way too nice to run a successful team. And let's his little brother run the team. He's no better than Bill Polian's senile ass. Even a sweet man like Robert Kraft knows when to cut the bullshit and make a change. He will stick behind Spielman for 10 more years before he grows a sack and actually goes through with firing the guy. You are preaching to the choir, Broseph. Although there's no end in sight. I'm praying for Michael Vick, because we don't have a single coach on our team that's capable of evaluating or developing a QB or QB prospect.

    Sorry Rick! Keep up the good work.

  4. #14
    kingpin9995 is offline Starter
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    Although, to be fair, Dalton has the advantage of having possibly one of the best receivers in the game, with a serviceable OL and wr depth. And a coach who calls plays to the match teams talent. I'm not sure any rookie QB would succeed their rookie year here. We were that bad last season.

    I'm still not a fan of Kaepernick. He just looks like a punk. I can't take him seriously, He might be more than talented, but I just don't get that 'wow' factor from him. He doesn't pass the eyeball test for what I'd want as a leader of a team. I like his physical abilities, but we'll see how he pans out.
    Positives: Extremely tough-minded and intelligent with terrific intangibles.

    Name them. I see no toughness.He's a weak minded thin skinned failure
    Strong drive and determination. Will battle through injuries and play through pain. Sells play-action hard.
    He's terrible at selling the play action. He's got the best running back in football and his play action fools no one.

    Gets rid of the ball quickly with good timing.
    Bullshit.... he holds the ball every snap and never throws the ball on time

    Moves well outside the pocket and can extend plays with his feet. Has a gamer mentality with the moxie and grit to command a huddle and win respect in the locker room.

    Was he commanding the huddle during that 38 minutes he did not complete oin fuking pass? Gamer? I saw no game.
    Shrugs off adversity, responds well in pressure situations and performed well at the Senior Bowl. Has a confident, composed on-field temperament and can rally a team from behind. Very natural leader.

    Shrugs off adversity? More like collapses with adversity. He has zero confidence, and has zero composure in the pocket, and can't rally shit from shinola.

    Negatives: Throwing elbow must be evaluated carefully - arm strength was limited prior to the injury, and accuracy wanes down the field. Average decision maker - takes unnecessary risks trying to make plays and lacks the velocity to squeeze the ball into coverage. Makes some bad reads and head-scratching decisions. Puts a lot of arc on the ball and often underthrows deep receivers - cannot cut it loose through the wind. Struggles gauging his own arm and touch. Regressed following the promotion of Jimbo Fisher to head coach (and is best with a technical position coach). Could not finish the season the last two years because of durability issues.

    These are ALL DEAD ON...

    Summary: An athletic, dink-and-dunk, West Coast passer who has been snake-bitten by injuries, Ponder has everything teams could want intangibly in a quarterback - intelligence, toughness, competitiveness and leadership qualities. However, his physical limitations will always leave teams wanting more QUOTE OF THE DAY and invite injury. Has the poise and confidence desired in a backup with potential to eventually become a good, not great, starter.

    HE'S NOT EVEN BACK UP MATERIAL...

  5. #15
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    purplehelmut is offline Pro-Bowler
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    I am certainly not sold on Ponder, couldn't believe we drafted him. But I think we're stuck with him for at least another year.

  6. #16
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    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplehelmut View Post
    I am certainly not sold on Ponder, couldn't believe we drafted him. But I think we're stuck with him for at least another year.
    I'm of the impression that Ponder is a problem, but not our main one.

    MUSGRAVE MUST GO! No ifs, ands or butts about it. He's terrible. He needs to be run out of town. He's doing a terrible job with Ponder, he's doing a terrible job calling plays that suit our players. We have a supposed deep threat in Simpson, but you don't need to be a genius to know he does one of two things, he'll run a fade, or a slant. Doesn't seem like we ever throw anything different his way. Fade or Slant. Have to utilize him differently.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by keystonevike View Post
    If Ponder isn't our guy, I would look back at the draft and see missed opportunities. Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick (I think I spelled it right) were on the board when we took Ponder at 12, which I think some would agree was a reach. Look what those 2 guys have done. But then again, maybe our OC is playing it safe and not letting Ponder have full use of the playbook. Unless his playbook is written on a post-it note. Maybe coaching staff is holding him back, so as not to let him make mistakes now that we are in the playoff picture, which maybe they didn't expect.
    Kapernick is on a team that is largely the same as last year, and they just missed going to the Super Bowl. Our team sucked last year, and sucks only slightly less this year. Unfair comparison.

    Dalton has the benefit of having a receiver that has the ability to do a couple of key things. Seperate and catch. Yes, I am saying our receivers as a whole do not possess those two skills.

    I am not saying Ponder is the answer. He is certainly part of the problem. However, watch the receivers. When are they open? Not very often. Yes, Ponder missed AP and had a bad toss to Rudulph. Lots of great QB/WR combinations over the years have had receptions that made you wonder.

    Was Culpepper a great QB, or did he have great WR's? Culpepper could through the ball anywhere he wanted and The Freak would go up and catch it. Double coverage...triple coverage...overthrown....underthrown.

    Watch Favre's 5 TD performance the Monday night his dad passed away. I dont't think he threw a single accurate ball, but his receivers made him look unbeatable that night.

    I am willing to give Ponder another year, but we better put some receivers on this team to help out.

  8. #18
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMullitia View Post
    Well... I've come to the realization that Zygi Wilf is even worse than McCombs in his later years. He's a soft pushover who knows nothing about football. He's way too nice to run a successful team. And let's his little brother run the team. He's no better than Bill Polian's senile ass. Even a sweet man like Robert Kraft knows when to cut the bullshit and make a change. He will stick behind Spielman for 10 more years before he grows a sack and actually goes through with firing the guy. You are preaching to the choir, Broseph. Although there's no end in sight. I'm praying for Michael Vick, because we don't have a single coach on our team that's capable of evaluating or developing a QB or QB prospect.
    Amen to that!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDVikingFan66 View Post
    Kapernick is on a team that is largely the same as last year, and they just missed going to the Super Bowl. Our team sucked last year, and sucks only slightly less this year. Unfair comparison.

    Dalton has the benefit of having a receiver that has the ability to do a couple of key things. Seperate and catch. Yes, I am saying our receivers as a whole do not possess those two skills.

    I am not saying Ponder is the answer. He is certainly part of the problem. However, watch the receivers. When are they open? Not very often. Yes, Ponder missed AP and had a bad toss to Rudulph. Lots of great QB/WR combinations over the years have had receptions that made you wonder.

    Was Culpepper a great QB, or did he have great WR's? Culpepper could through the ball anywhere he wanted and The Freak would go up and catch it. Double coverage...triple coverage...overthrown....underthrown.

    Watch Favre's 5 TD performance the Monday night his dad passed away. I dont't think he threw a single accurate ball, but his receivers made him look unbeatable that night.

    I am willing to give Ponder another year, but we better put some receivers on this team to help out.
    I agree it's a bit of both. Ponder can certainly improve his play and make the receivers look better. There is no doubt receivers are open on many plays that he is missing. And of course even when he does throw to them he is struggling with accuracy. On the other hand, if there is no trust in the receivers to win their matchups, you will be reluctant to go their direction without seeing a lot of separation.

    Just watching Brandon Marshall with Cutler shows how much a receiver can help his QB. That guy beat us multiple times with two guys draped all over him. It wasn't anything magical by Cutler, it was all Marshall. Megatron the same thing. GB has a handful of receivers that make plays as well, but Rogers helps greatly in their case.

    If Stafford or Cutler was starting for the Vikings, I'm not sure we would be happy with those results either. We would just know that they are proven QB's so we could shift the blame more easily onto others.

    I would also like to add that when you watch a QB light up a defense, it is generally a thing of beauty. The rare times the tv coverage shows the camera angle from the QB's view, you realize how precise those throws are and how close any given pass is to be being a failure. Good QB's have a ton of confidence in themselves and their receivers. Right now we have neither and I highly doubt that throwing into tight coverage is going to be the path to our passing improvements.

    For a completely polar approach to MN, look at what Indy is doing with Luck. This is a guy that nobody has a shred of doubt about his abilities. So they arrange the team around him. They have him chuck the ball up 40-50 times a game. If he screws up and throws a few INT's, so what, keep chucking it around. Repetition makes you better, he is on an accelerated developmental stage with nothing to lose. The team had no expectations and it's all about developing Luck to be their next Peyton. In MN, we treat Ponder with kid gloves, hoping that the rest of the team can carry us while he figures it out. Game manage, don't lose it. If we get way behind, then we will open things up and let him loose a bit. If Luck had come to MN, I'm not so sure we would have treated him much differently.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    I agree it's a bit of both. Ponder can certainly improve his play and make the receivers look better. There is no doubt receivers are open on many plays that he is missing. And of course even when he does throw to them he is struggling with accuracy. On the other hand, if there is no trust in the receivers to win their matchups, you will be reluctant to go their direction without seeing a lot of separation.

    Just watching Brandon Marshall with Cutler shows how much a receiver can help his QB. That guy beat us multiple times with two guys draped all over him. It wasn't anything magical by Cutler, it was all Marshall. Megatron the same thing. GB has a handful of receivers that make plays as well, but Rogers helps greatly in their case.

    If Stafford or Cutler was starting for the Vikings, I'm not sure we would be happy with those results either. We would just know that they are proven QB's so we could shift the blame more easily onto others.

    I would also like to add that when you watch a QB light up a defense, it is generally a thing of beauty. The rare times the tv coverage shows the camera angle from the QB's view, you realize how precise those throws are and how close any given pass is to be being a failure. Good QB's have a ton of confidence in themselves and their receivers. Right now we have neither and I highly doubt that throwing into tight coverage is going to be the path to our passing improvements.

    For a completely polar approach to MN, look at what Indy is doing with Luck. This is a guy that nobody has a shred of doubt about his abilities. So they arrange the team around him. They have him chuck the ball up 40-50 times a game. If he screws up and throws a few INT's, so what, keep chucking it around. Repetition makes you better, he is on an accelerated developmental stage with nothing to lose. The team had no expectations and it's all about developing Luck to be their next Peyton. In MN, we treat Ponder with kid gloves, hoping that the rest of the team can carry us while he figures it out. Game manage, don't lose it. If we get way behind, then we will open things up and let him loose a bit. If Luck had come to MN, I'm not so sure we would have treated him much differently.
    +1

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