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  1. #11
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is online now Ring of Fame
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    Dec 1969
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    3,880

    Re: Haslett, Tice, Childress?: Marginal HCs get a second chance?

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "tastywaves" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=48499.msg851507#msg851507 date=1223902836]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=48499.msg851504#msg851504 date=1223902228]
    Nice post. Wish I had time to digest it all, however, it caused me to ponder a small question.......

    Using the rationale that HC's are tied to draft picks, especially QB's, should Jeff Fisher be fired for VY?

    Nope, I will continue to point out that draft picks are a product of a GM like guy that has a college scouting staff under him that pick the best players (percieved at least) from each class of college players that year and its the HC's job to get them game ready.

    If anyones jiggly butt should be on the line for committing huge dollars (most gaurantee'd) for "Franchise" QB's that fail at the next level it should start with the GM, filter down the scouts that evaluated the tape and then hit the QB coach, O-coord and the HC all at the same time.

    Of course if you believe that the HC alone is solely responsible for not only finding the kid, drafting the kid, signing him to huge contract with lots of up front gaurantee'd money then I guess I am pondering the wrong thought.
    There are always many involved, obviously, an any draft acquisition or in any player acquisition for that matter.
    The HC is, well, the HC.
    They are at the top of the coaching hierarchy.
    So, when things go badly, whether they are perceived or real, and the owner sees a fan base that is going ballistic and things like the seats aren't selling out, the stadium deal isn't getting done, etc.
    The HC is the easiest scapegoat on the list.
    If it gives optimism to the fanbase, even if it is not warranted, it can help with some other issues.
    Now, if the ownership listend to the "fire Coughlin" crowd at this juncture of the season last year the Jints wouldn't be sporting another Lombardi.
    In the world of volatile HCing positions you just never know what will happen.
    People get canned all the time, I'm guessing it's more common than somebody, like Bud Grant, just stepping down.
    Childress mentioned that he is well aware of that risk, it comes with the ground of being an HC in the NFL....or college for that matter.
    And just as good of a follow-up post.
    You are on your "A" game today my friend.

    Quick question...........

    So what your saying is that because the fan base isn't intelligent enough to understand the complexity of how players are selected, the owner should just go out and shitcan the HC because the fans are yutz's?

    Why not use your PR department to educate the masses, get the local sports rubes to write accurate stuff about it and move on.
    Wouldn't that be simpler instead of just starting over every 3 or 4 years with a new HC so that you could keep the blind masses happy?

    :
    Anybody that has followed the NFL for any amount of time knows that the average fan is a silly guy and understands very little about the game, that is a given.
    I'm not saying that they should do that, I am saying that they do that.
    Just look around and the HCs that have been canned and gone on to greatness.
    There are very few teams in this era that hire a guy as HC and believe in them and stick with them in the long-term.
    The Steelers come to mind as a team that follows that principle.
    There are many more that do not.
    Bottom-line is that the game, unlike the old days, is all about the money.
    They can blow smoke all they want about how it isn't, but their actions speak louder than words.
    It's like a research I university, they blow smoke about teaching being important...but, when it comes down to faculty promotions the only thing that matters is publications and money brought in.
    That is reality, like it or not.
    If the negative vocal masses get the ball rolling the HC is dead in the water.
    I agree that the PR people should do their job, but, like politics, people read through it and even if they are telling semblances of truth they will not change their minds once they are made.
    Hell, look at this board.
    If some people think TJack sucks jiggly butt there is nothing that can be said or done to change their mind.
    It's all about perception and money.
    Cold hard truth right there.
    Its about the money, and fan perception is a very large part of it, whether the fans are right or wrong is irrelevant.

    Use the word "Media" perception vice fan perception and I will agree with ya Tasty.


    The reason the NFL is so big is based on Corporate and TV dollars and not the local rubes that park thier butts in the seats (almost) every weekend.


    Like it or not, Joe average fan has very little impact on what a owner does.
    If they did, McMullet would have been fired in Lion land long before he was.
    [/quote]

    That was old man Ford.
    Like it or not, the average fan when combined together has a huge influence.
    They rely on the diehard fans that will watch the game no matter what.
    When the paying masses say floop you to the ownership and the revenues drop they listen.
    If every media outlet is thrashing on a coach and the fans follow the days are numbered for the HC if they don't start producing.
    Every HC that is worth their weight ignores that crap and does their job.
    They already know up front what is expected of them and if they get the job done there is no problem.
    The fan base is fickle, hell, when the Steelers were in the SB a couple years ago and started off slowly the following season the majority of the fans wanted the coach canned.
    It's part of the game.
    The HC position is more volatile now than ever.
    People that have a brain, like Zygi, sort through the kaka del rio and you can guarantee he has people looking at the finances and is critically looking at the team.
    He didn't become a billionaire by being a dumb floop.
    [/quote]

    That's the key to the whole does Childress stay or does he go.
    Zygi understands that the product he puts on the field is what matters, this is measured largely by fan perception, the media just feeds/fuels the opinions.
    Whether Chilly is the best guy to do this at this point is something he needs to make a determination on.
    I doubt he will be swayed by the fan or the media's opinion on whether he is a good coach or not, the end product is what is being judged.
    I'm sure there is a lot that goes into consideration on this decision, but at the end of the day it becomes a faith question for Zygi that Childress will help him meet his objectives with this team.
    If he loses faith in Childress he is gone.
    The signs in the dome on game day and the chants from the crowd will probably not factor into his decision much if he is a strong leader.
    its more of a statement that the fans are not happy with the current product, which may or may not be completely attributed to having Childress as the head coach.

  2. #12
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
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    Re: Haslett, Tice, Childress?: Marginal HCs get a second chance?

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "tastywaves" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=48499.msg851507#msg851507 date=1223902836]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=48499.msg851504#msg851504 date=1223902228]
    Nice post. Wish I had time to digest it all, however, it caused me to ponder a small question.......

    Using the rationale that HC's are tied to draft picks, especially QB's, should Jeff Fisher be fired for VY?

    Nope, I will continue to point out that draft picks are a product of a GM like guy that has a college scouting staff under him that pick the best players (percieved at least) from each class of college players that year and its the HC's job to get them game ready.

    If anyones jiggly butt should be on the line for committing huge dollars (most gaurantee'd) for "Franchise" QB's that fail at the next level it should start with the GM, filter down the scouts that evaluated the tape and then hit the QB coach, O-coord and the HC all at the same time.

    Of course if you believe that the HC alone is solely responsible for not only finding the kid, drafting the kid, signing him to huge contract with lots of up front gaurantee'd money then I guess I am pondering the wrong thought.
    There are always many involved, obviously, an any draft acquisition or in any player acquisition for that matter.
    The HC is, well, the HC.
    They are at the top of the coaching hierarchy.
    So, when things go badly, whether they are perceived or real, and the owner sees a fan base that is going ballistic and things like the seats aren't selling out, the stadium deal isn't getting done, etc.
    The HC is the easiest scapegoat on the list.
    If it gives optimism to the fanbase, even if it is not warranted, it can help with some other issues.
    Now, if the ownership listend to the "fire Coughlin" crowd at this juncture of the season last year the Jints wouldn't be sporting another Lombardi.
    In the world of volatile HCing positions you just never know what will happen.
    People get canned all the time, I'm guessing it's more common than somebody, like Bud Grant, just stepping down.
    Childress mentioned that he is well aware of that risk, it comes with the ground of being an HC in the NFL....or college for that matter.
    And just as good of a follow-up post.
    You are on your "A" game today my friend.

    Quick question...........

    So what your saying is that because the fan base isn't intelligent enough to understand the complexity of how players are selected, the owner should just go out and shitcan the HC because the fans are yutz's?

    Why not use your PR department to educate the masses, get the local sports rubes to write accurate stuff about it and move on.
    Wouldn't that be simpler instead of just starting over every 3 or 4 years with a new HC so that you could keep the blind masses happy?

    :
    Anybody that has followed the NFL for any amount of time knows that the average fan is a silly guy and understands very little about the game, that is a given.
    I'm not saying that they should do that, I am saying that they do that.
    Just look around and the HCs that have been canned and gone on to greatness.
    There are very few teams in this era that hire a guy as HC and believe in them and stick with them in the long-term.
    The Steelers come to mind as a team that follows that principle.
    There are many more that do not.
    Bottom-line is that the game, unlike the old days, is all about the money.
    They can blow smoke all they want about how it isn't, but their actions speak louder than words.
    It's like a research I university, they blow smoke about teaching being important...but, when it comes down to faculty promotions the only thing that matters is publications and money brought in.
    That is reality, like it or not.
    If the negative vocal masses get the ball rolling the HC is dead in the water.
    I agree that the PR people should do their job, but, like politics, people read through it and even if they are telling semblances of truth they will not change their minds once they are made.
    Hell, look at this board.
    If some people think TJack sucks jiggly butt there is nothing that can be said or done to change their mind.
    It's all about perception and money.
    Cold hard truth right there.
    Its about the money, and fan perception is a very large part of it, whether the fans are right or wrong is irrelevant.

    Use the word "Media" perception vice fan perception and I will agree with ya Tasty.


    The reason the NFL is so big is based on Corporate and TV dollars and not the local rubes that park thier butts in the seats (almost) every weekend.


    Like it or not, Joe average fan has very little impact on what a owner does.
    If they did, McMullet would have been fired in Lion land long before he was.
    [/quote]

    That was old man Ford.
    Like it or not, the average fan when combined together has a huge influence.
    They rely on the diehard fans that will watch the game no matter what.
    When the paying masses say floop you to the ownership and the revenues drop they listen.
    If every media outlet is thrashing on a coach and the fans follow the days are numbered for the HC if they don't start producing.
    Every HC that is worth their weight ignores that crap and does their job.
    They already know up front what is expected of them and if they get the job done there is no problem.
    The fan base is fickle, hell, when the Steelers were in the SB a couple years ago and started off slowly the following season the majority of the fans wanted the coach canned.
    It's part of the game.
    The HC position is more volatile now than ever.
    People that have a brain, like Zygi, sort through the kaka del rio and you can guarantee he has people looking at the finances and is critically looking at the team.
    He didn't become a billionaire by being a dumb floop.
    [/quote]
    Again, it is more around the TV dollar that revenues come in, not Joe average fan that sits in the seat.

    Guess what, if you are a "Clicker" like me, you will move between games on commercials and the same commercials are on the Bengals (suck) as they are on the Giants (one of the best teams this year).

    Its part of the TV dollar that was bargained for by the NFL regardless of the teams win/loss record.

    Do sellouts and a solid fan base put money in the owners pocket?
    Yes, however, if that fan base dries up and goes away the team just moves to a new one.

    Go ahead, keep trying to convince yourself that you really count.
    I gave up on it long ago when they started taking out seats for sky boxes and the game slowed down for TV timeouts to accomodate the commercials and the commentary.
    ;D
    ;D
    ;D
    ;D
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #13
    Prophet's Avatar
    Prophet is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    17,388

    Re: Haslett, Tice, Childress?: Marginal HCs get a second chance?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "tastywaves" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=48499.msg851508#msg851508 date=1223903054]
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=48499.msg851507#msg851507 date=1223902836]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=48499.msg851504#msg851504 date=1223902228]
    Nice post. Wish I had time to digest it all, however, it caused me to ponder a small question.......

    Using the rationale that HC's are tied to draft picks, especially QB's, should Jeff Fisher be fired for VY?

    Nope, I will continue to point out that draft picks are a product of a GM like guy that has a college scouting staff under him that pick the best players (percieved at least) from each class of college players that year and its the HC's job to get them game ready.

    If anyones jiggly butt should be on the line for committing huge dollars (most gaurantee'd) for "Franchise" QB's that fail at the next level it should start with the GM, filter down the scouts that evaluated the tape and then hit the QB coach, O-coord and the HC all at the same time.

    Of course if you believe that the HC alone is solely responsible for not only finding the kid, drafting the kid, signing him to huge contract with lots of up front gaurantee'd money then I guess I am pondering the wrong thought.
    There are always many involved, obviously, an any draft acquisition or in any player acquisition for that matter.
    The HC is, well, the HC.
    They are at the top of the coaching hierarchy.
    So, when things go badly, whether they are perceived or real, and the owner sees a fan base that is going ballistic and things like the seats aren't selling out, the stadium deal isn't getting done, etc.
    The HC is the easiest scapegoat on the list.
    If it gives optimism to the fanbase, even if it is not warranted, it can help with some other issues.
    Now, if the ownership listend to the "fire Coughlin" crowd at this juncture of the season last year the Jints wouldn't be sporting another Lombardi.
    In the world of volatile HCing positions you just never know what will happen.
    People get canned all the time, I'm guessing it's more common than somebody, like Bud Grant, just stepping down.
    Childress mentioned that he is well aware of that risk, it comes with the ground of being an HC in the NFL....or college for that matter.
    And just as good of a follow-up post.
    You are on your "A" game today my friend.

    Quick question...........

    So what your saying is that because the fan base isn't intelligent enough to understand the complexity of how players are selected, the owner should just go out and shitcan the HC because the fans are yutz's?

    Why not use your PR department to educate the masses, get the local sports rubes to write accurate stuff about it and move on.
    Wouldn't that be simpler instead of just starting over every 3 or 4 years with a new HC so that you could keep the blind masses happy?

    :
    Anybody that has followed the NFL for any amount of time knows that the average fan is a silly guy and understands very little about the game, that is a given.
    I'm not saying that they should do that, I am saying that they do that.
    Just look around and the HCs that have been canned and gone on to greatness.
    There are very few teams in this era that hire a guy as HC and believe in them and stick with them in the long-term.
    The Steelers come to mind as a team that follows that principle.
    There are many more that do not.
    Bottom-line is that the game, unlike the old days, is all about the money.
    They can blow smoke all they want about how it isn't, but their actions speak louder than words.
    It's like a research I university, they blow smoke about teaching being important...but, when it comes down to faculty promotions the only thing that matters is publications and money brought in.
    That is reality, like it or not.
    If the negative vocal masses get the ball rolling the HC is dead in the water.
    I agree that the PR people should do their job, but, like politics, people read through it and even if they are telling semblances of truth they will not change their minds once they are made.
    Hell, look at this board.
    If some people think TJack sucks jiggly butt there is nothing that can be said or done to change their mind.
    It's all about perception and money.
    Cold hard truth right there.
    Its about the money, and fan perception is a very large part of it, whether the fans are right or wrong is irrelevant.

    Use the word "Media" perception vice fan perception and I will agree with ya Tasty.


    The reason the NFL is so big is based on Corporate and TV dollars and not the local rubes that park thier butts in the seats (almost) every weekend.


    Like it or not, Joe average fan has very little impact on what a owner does.
    If they did, McMullet would have been fired in Lion land long before he was.
    [/quote]

    That was old man Ford.
    Like it or not, the average fan when combined together has a huge influence.
    They rely on the diehard fans that will watch the game no matter what.
    When the paying masses say floop you to the ownership and the revenues drop they listen.
    If every media outlet is thrashing on a coach and the fans follow the days are numbered for the HC if they don't start producing.
    Every HC that is worth their weight ignores that crap and does their job.
    They already know up front what is expected of them and if they get the job done there is no problem.
    The fan base is fickle, hell, when the Steelers were in the SB a couple years ago and started off slowly the following season the majority of the fans wanted the coach canned.
    It's part of the game.
    The HC position is more volatile now than ever.
    People that have a brain, like Zygi, sort through the kaka del rio and you can guarantee he has people looking at the finances and is critically looking at the team.
    He didn't become a billionaire by being a dumb floop.
    [/quote]
    Again, it is more around the TV dollar that revenues come in, not Joe average fan that sits in the seat.

    Guess what, if you are a "Clicker" like me, you will move between games on commercials and the same commercials are on the Bengals (suck) as they are on the Giants (one of the best teams this year).

    Its part of the TV dollar that was bargained for by the NFL regardless of the teams win/loss record.

    Do sellouts and a solid fan base put money in the owners pocket?
    Yes, however, if that fan base dries up and goes away the team just moves to a new one.

    Go ahead, keep trying to convince yourself that you really count.
    I gave up on it long ago when they started taking out seats for sky boxes and the game slowed down for TV timeouts to accomodate the commercials and the commentary.

    ;D
    ;D
    ;D
    ;D
    ;D
    [/quote]

    Of course nobody counts on an individual basis.
    The fan base counts, without them there is nothing.
    Yes, revenues are driven by the TV bullshit, just like the bowl games in college.
    That is a cash cow for the universities.
    I'll default to tastywaves post, he explained what I'm thinking better than I did.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    Re: Haslett, Tice, Childress?: Marginal HCs get a second chance?

    "Prophet" wrote:
    Of course nobody counts on an individual basis.
    The fan base counts, without them there is nothing.
    Yes, revenues are driven by the TV kaka del rio, just like the bowl games in college.
    That is a cash cow for the universities.
    I'll default to tastywaves post, he explained what I'm thinking better than I did.
    I often do that.
    Tasty is wise beyond his years my friend and usually is a bit more articulated than I.
    ;D

    Problem is I am a bit hard headed on a few issues and this one I can't be swayed on.
    To sit here and think that some yutz fans booing in the stadium is gonna get the Chiller fired is simply crazy talk (at least in my limited way of thinking).

    Only way the Chiller leaves is if this team quits playing for him or he does something stupid like going out and scalping some tickets or something.

    Nope, we have been in every game with only a few exceptions since the move was made to hire the Chiller.
    IMHO we are just a few inconsitent plays away from having a better record this year.

    Those things will iron themselves out but it won't happen if you fire a HC and then have to start over (again).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
    marshallvike's Avatar
    marshallvike is offline Team Alumni
    Join Date
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    Naperville, IL
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    2,473

    Re: Haslett, Tice, Childress?: Marginal HCs get a second chance?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "tastywaves" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=48499.msg851508#msg851508 date=1223903054]
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=48499.msg851507#msg851507 date=1223902836]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=48499.msg851504#msg851504 date=1223902228]
    Nice post. Wish I had time to digest it all, however, it caused me to ponder a small question.......

    Using the rationale that HC's are tied to draft picks, especially QB's, should Jeff Fisher be fired for VY?

    Nope, I will continue to point out that draft picks are a product of a GM like guy that has a college scouting staff under him that pick the best players (percieved at least) from each class of college players that year and its the HC's job to get them game ready.

    If anyones jiggly butt should be on the line for committing huge dollars (most gaurantee'd) for "Franchise" QB's that fail at the next level it should start with the GM, filter down the scouts that evaluated the tape and then hit the QB coach, O-coord and the HC all at the same time.

    Of course if you believe that the HC alone is solely responsible for not only finding the kid, drafting the kid, signing him to huge contract with lots of up front gaurantee'd money then I guess I am pondering the wrong thought.
    There are always many involved, obviously, an any draft acquisition or in any player acquisition for that matter.
    The HC is, well, the HC.
    They are at the top of the coaching hierarchy.
    So, when things go badly, whether they are perceived or real, and the owner sees a fan base that is going ballistic and things like the seats aren't selling out, the stadium deal isn't getting done, etc.
    The HC is the easiest scapegoat on the list.
    If it gives optimism to the fanbase, even if it is not warranted, it can help with some other issues.
    Now, if the ownership listend to the "fire Coughlin" crowd at this juncture of the season last year the Jints wouldn't be sporting another Lombardi.
    In the world of volatile HCing positions you just never know what will happen.
    People get canned all the time, I'm guessing it's more common than somebody, like Bud Grant, just stepping down.
    Childress mentioned that he is well aware of that risk, it comes with the ground of being an HC in the NFL....or college for that matter.
    And just as good of a follow-up post.
    You are on your "A" game today my friend.

    Quick question...........

    So what your saying is that because the fan base isn't intelligent enough to understand the complexity of how players are selected, the owner should just go out and shitcan the HC because the fans are yutz's?

    Why not use your PR department to educate the masses, get the local sports rubes to write accurate stuff about it and move on.
    Wouldn't that be simpler instead of just starting over every 3 or 4 years with a new HC so that you could keep the blind masses happy?

    :
    Anybody that has followed the NFL for any amount of time knows that the average fan is a silly guy and understands very little about the game, that is a given.
    I'm not saying that they should do that, I am saying that they do that.
    Just look around and the HCs that have been canned and gone on to greatness.
    There are very few teams in this era that hire a guy as HC and believe in them and stick with them in the long-term.
    The Steelers come to mind as a team that follows that principle.
    There are many more that do not.
    Bottom-line is that the game, unlike the old days, is all about the money.
    They can blow smoke all they want about how it isn't, but their actions speak louder than words.
    It's like a research I university, they blow smoke about teaching being important...but, when it comes down to faculty promotions the only thing that matters is publications and money brought in.
    That is reality, like it or not.
    If the negative vocal masses get the ball rolling the HC is dead in the water.
    I agree that the PR people should do their job, but, like politics, people read through it and even if they are telling semblances of truth they will not change their minds once they are made.
    Hell, look at this board.
    If some people think TJack sucks jiggly butt there is nothing that can be said or done to change their mind.
    It's all about perception and money.
    Cold hard truth right there.
    Its about the money, and fan perception is a very large part of it, whether the fans are right or wrong is irrelevant.

    Use the word "Media" perception vice fan perception and I will agree with ya Tasty.


    The reason the NFL is so big is based on Corporate and TV dollars and not the local rubes that park thier butts in the seats (almost) every weekend.


    Like it or not, Joe average fan has very little impact on what a owner does.
    If they did, McMullet would have been fired in Lion land long before he was.
    [/quote]

    That was old man Ford.
    Like it or not, the average fan when combined together has a huge influence.
    They rely on the diehard fans that will watch the game no matter what.
    When the paying masses say floop you to the ownership and the revenues drop they listen.
    If every media outlet is thrashing on a coach and the fans follow the days are numbered for the HC if they don't start producing.
    Every HC that is worth their weight ignores that crap and does their job.
    They already know up front what is expected of them and if they get the job done there is no problem.
    The fan base is fickle, hell, when the Steelers were in the SB a couple years ago and started off slowly the following season the majority of the fans wanted the coach canned.
    It's part of the game.
    The HC position is more volatile now than ever.
    People that have a brain, like Zygi, sort through the kaka del rio and you can guarantee he has people looking at the finances and is critically looking at the team.
    He didn't become a billionaire by being a dumb floop.
    [/quote]
    Again, it is more around the TV dollar that revenues come in, not Joe average fan that sits in the seat.

    Guess what, if you are a "Clicker" like me, you will move between games on commercials and the same commercials are on the Bengals (suck) as they are on the Giants (one of the best teams this year).

    Its part of the TV dollar that was bargained for by the NFL regardless of the teams win/loss record.

    Do sellouts and a solid fan base put money in the owners pocket?
    Yes, however, if that fan base dries up and goes away the team just moves to a new one.

    Go ahead, keep trying to convince yourself that you really count.
    I gave up on it long ago when they started taking out seats for sky boxes and the game slowed down for TV timeouts to accomodate the commercials and the commentary.

    ;D
    ;D
    ;D
    ;D
    ;D
    [/quote]

    i watched the game two weeks ago at a neighborhood tavern. they play every game that is on at that time slot. during commercials i can simply turn my head and watch another game for a few minutes. during one commercial break, i looked around and saw that EVERY GAME was on a commercial at the same time. every single dog gonit game. Maybe we do not count for much after all.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  6. #16
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Haslett, Tice, Childress?: Marginal HCs get a second chance?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    Of course nobody counts on an individual basis.
    The fan base counts, without them there is nothing.
    Yes, revenues are driven by the TV kaka del rio, just like the bowl games in college.
    That is a cash cow for the universities.
    I'll default to tastywaves post, he explained what I'm thinking better than I did.
    I often do that.
    Tasty is wise beyond his years my friend and usually is a bit more articulated than I.

    ;D

    Problem is I am a bit hard headed on a few issues and this one I can't be swayed on.
    To sit here and think that some yutz fans booing in the stadium is gonna get the Chiller fired is simply crazy talk (at least in my limited way of thinking).

    Only way the Chiller leaves is if this team quits playing for him or he does something stupid like going out and scalping some tickets or something.

    Nope, we have been in every game with only a few exceptions since the move was made to hire the Chiller.

    IMHO we are just a few inconsitent plays away from having a better record this year.

    Those things will iron themselves out but it won't happen if you fire a HC and then have to start over (again).
    This thread has really veered off topic.
    I really don't care what happens, but want the team to win.
    The losses in close games have happened since Childress took over.
    It was acceptable in the first couple years and become increasingly unacceptable as his tenure wears on.
    This year the difference is that the close games are resulting in a couple Ws.
    Firing a HC in midseason is almost always a mistake.
    There aren't as many other HCs available and an interim HC, which would be Frazier, could potentially be ok.
    The problem is that none of us know what is really going on in the clubhouse regarding how the personnel either buys into or doesn't buy into the scheme.

    I totally agree that it is a couple plays away and mistakes away from being much better.
    Just this last game had two TDs taken away (AD fumble and Cook penalty) that were near the goalline before the screw ups.
    That has been the case for the past couple years.
    I hope they correct those issues and keep winning the close ones.

    Individuals can always influence change.
    When the anti-tobacco crowd first started out everyone said they were morons and could not fight that entity.
    Now there is so much anti-tobacco crap that you can't smoke in restaurants or even in bars in some places.
    The individuals in mass won.
    The problem with the anti-childress or any coach sentiment is that it is often misdirected because you have morons with a faulty data set trying to make decisions.
    The folks like Wilf will make the final decision and they will base it on information that we are don't have available.
    The general sentiment of the fan base plays a part in that, to think otherwise is foolish.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  7. #17
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    Re: Haslett, Tice, Childress?: Marginal HCs get a second chance?

    "C" wrote:
    1.) At least Tice could beat the Packers.
    2.) At least Tice never lost to the Lions.
    3.) If Tice is marginal, Childress is the black-plague.
    Tice, that man that was given the interim-HC job and kept it because McCombs was too tight to hire a real HC?
    The same guy that couldn't land a job when there were six HC openings the year his contract wasn't renewed?
    The same guy that was hired by Del Rio as asst HC/Offense and then demoted to TE coach?
    Yeah, he is as marginal as they come.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  8. #18
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    Re: Haslett, Tice, Childress?: Marginal HCs get a second chance?

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    1.) At least Tice could beat the Packers.
    2.) At least Tice never lost to the Lions.
    3.) If Tice is marginal, Childress is the black-plague.
    Tice, that man that was given the interim-HC job and kept it because McCombs was too tight to hire a real HC?
    The same guy that couldn't land a job when there were six HC openings the year his contract wasn't renewed?
    The same guy that was hired by Del Rio as asst HC/Offense and then demoted to TE coach?
    Yeah, he is as marginal as they come.
    Well, first off... Tice did lose to the Lions his first year.

    Secondly, I doubt Childress could even be a TE coach in this league.

    He needs to be under the umbrella of a great coach like Reid to look halfway respectable.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  9. #19
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    Re: Haslett, Tice, Childress?: Marginal HCs get a second chance?

    "C" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    1.) At least Tice could beat the Packers.
    2.) At least Tice never lost to the Lions.
    3.) If Tice is marginal, Childress is the black-plague.
    Tice, that man that was given the interim-HC job and kept it because McCombs was too tight to hire a real HC?
    The same guy that couldn't land a job when there were six HC openings the year his contract wasn't renewed?
    The same guy that was hired by Del Rio as asst HC/Offense and then demoted to TE coach?
    Yeah, he is as marginal as they come.
    Well, first off... Tice did lose to the Lions his first year.

    Secondly, I doubt Childress could even be a TE coach in this league.

    He needs to be under the umbrella of a great coach like Reid to look halfway respectable.
    Contrary to your beliefs, Tice was as marginal and as mediocre a coach as there could be.
    He finished with <0.500 record and did had the neat things like the loveboat and scalping SB tx.
    He was really nice to the press (so they liked him) and he was buddies with the players.
    He was a joke, and, to me, at the level of Les Steckel.

    The point of the thread is that due to the volatility of the HC position in the league, all three of the coaches I mentinoed that are marginal will probably get another shot at HC with another team.
    It's tough to find a good HC and an owner that has enough staying power to allow them to succeed.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  10. #20
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    Re: Haslett, Tice, Childress?: Marginal HCs get a second chance?

    I still stand by my comment: If Tice is marginal, Childress is the black-plague.

    And I agree that Tice is a marginal coach.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

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