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  1. #11
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: The Harrison Hit

    Clearly, players can and MUST learn to AVOID such collisions.

    The fines are not big enough to discourage the Neanderthals that are going out to hurt people (some by their own admission).

    Many of them think they will get fat contracts and make more money if they knock players of the opposing team out of the game.

    That's sad.

    In time, learning will come. It's slow because the very guys that are the worst offenders have taken too many head shots themselves and really can't figure out what this is all about.

    The shame of the NFL is that they have been finding ways to avoid paying the proper benefits to retired players who were hurt permanently on the field.

    Read the story of Mercury Morris to learn how this sordid business works.

    The story of NFL vets with premature dementia is slowly getting out. When it gets more publicity, more pressure will be applied to end this unnecessary violence that results in tragedies for players and their families.

    The problem is, the impacts are actually getting worse and the number of cases of severe dementia will probably increase in the future even if harsh measures are taken now.

    We're actually playing catch up and we're way behind.

    The NFL is moving too slowly now because they seem to think that most fans want to see big hits and they're afraid to deny the fans what they want.

    They better get serious about protecting players before it's too late.
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  2. #12
    Erinnn is offline Starter
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    Re: The Harrison Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1080922
    Clearly, players can and MUST learn to AVOID such collisions.

    The fines are not big enough to discourage the Neanderthals that are going out to hurt people (some by their own admission).

    Many of them think they will get fat contracts and make more money if they knock players of the opposing team out of the game.

    That's sad.

    In time, learning will come. It's slow because the very guys that are the worst offenders have taken too many head shots themselves and really can't figure out what this is all about.

    The shame of the NFL is that they have been finding ways to avoid paying the proper benefits to retired players who were hurt permanently on the field.

    Read the story of Mercury Morris to learn how this sordid business works.

    The story of NFL vets with premature dementia is slowly getting out. When it gets more publicity, more pressure will be applied to end this unnecessary violence that results in tragedies for players and their families.

    The problem is, the impacts are actually getting worse and the number of cases of severe dementia will probably increase in the future even if harsh measures are taken now.
    I just read an article about Jim McMahon losing his memory due to concussions he sustained while playing. Gridiron Greats Assistance Fund has a lot of stories about the medical and financial difficulties a lot of retired players deal with, of course you have to assume most of these were guys who played before giant contracts became standard.

  3. #13
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: The Harrison Hit

    Also, keep in mind, now is about the time when some of the early stars of the game are reaching their 80's. Guys who played in the 40s/50s, when they first started introducing all this heavy equipment capable of damaging the brain. It started happening a couple decades ago. Older players started having problems, which have been linked to concussions. Back in the day, if you had a concussion, you MAYBE take a play off then get back in there. You had to man up, they didn't know better though. Now they do, and that's why we see all the fines coming out.

    Yes, I think it's necessary, the flagrant hits from douchebags like Harrison SHOULD be fined, and could be dealt with by suspension. Hoever, you now have the issue of what is intentional, and what was incidental? Take the Boldin hit for example that smashed his face in. I honestly think that was not intentional. He got hit from behind, which forced his head forward into the incoming helmet of the defender. That was just an unfortuante play. But how can you fine Harrison but not that guy?

    it's tough.

  4. #14
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    Re: The Harrison Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by "ultravikingfan" #1080916
    I can totally understand if it appears a player is using his helmet as a weapon.

    However, there are some ridiculous fines now. The Jackson/Robinson COLLISION was bullshit. He did not lead with his helmet. Was it viscious? Hell yes. And legal too. Sure the result was pretty bad, but it's a man's game.

    Who was it that was fined (or maybe just flagged) for brushing their hand across the back of the QB's helmet? He was getting blocked wide and the QB stepped up in the pocket and his hand made contact (barely) with the back of the helmet. Just stupid.

    Outta give some of the guys tampons...starting with Goodell.
    Agreed on the Jackson/Robinson part. As far as the QB's helmet goes, they've been calling that for a long time. If you hit him in the head with your hand, there's going to be a flag 100% of the time from what I've seen. Not saying it's a good rule, but it's been that way for as long as I can remember and it's been consistent, so I can't really complain.

    I honestly think it's as simple as keeping your eyes up. If you're looking at the ground when you hit the guy, you're doing it wrong.

  5. #15
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    Re: The Harrison Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1080808
    I totally disagree (except about the potential solution, which might have merit).

    Something has gone horribly wrong when a QB can be intentionally knocked out of the game with a helmet to the head.

    This creates incentive to improve your chances by knocking out the other team's first string QB.....and if the replacement plays well....take him out, too.

    And.....what's the other team doing? Immediately they start plotting to do the same thing to you. TAKE OUT YOUR QB.

    Even if there's a penalty.....even if there's a penalty and fine....you still come out ahead.

    All of a sudden it's open season on quarterbacks.

    Same thing applies when a team has a star receiver.....lead with the helmet and see him carried off the field. You just improved your team's chances by a good margin.

    Then your opponent retaliates by going helmet to helmet with your best receiver.

    This is stupid and it's not real football at all....it's winning by assassination.
    You don't want your QB hit? Protect him.
    You don't want your WR's hit? Stop the QB from hanging them out over the middle.
    You don't want players to get hurt? Keep them on the sidelines.

    Look, I'm not advocating going out and intentionally taking guys out. I'm talking about fixing the game.

    Roll your QB out of the pocket. That will slow down the pass rush.
    Have your QB get rid of the ball. That will stop him from being hit.
    Run the fricken ball.

    In the end, you yourself made a very good point in another thread. The complexity of the game (you said scheme) is what contributes to someone getting hurt because someone didn't get that part in practice. In the end, a Lineman will miss a block, a RB won't pick up the blitz or whatever, but in the end your guy is gonna get hit even if you do practice it and get it right for the most part.

    I for one hate that we are seeing WR's hung out over the middle like we are seeing now. If trouble (S/LB'rs) is coming at the WR from the opposite direction you don't throw to him. Atleast thats what our coaches taught.

    As a reciever you knew you were being taken care of and could just concentrate on catching the ball. Now all we see is QB's throwing it and WR's getting layed out.

    But ultimately, fix the helmet issue and people will go back to hitting the right way.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #16
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    Re: The Harrison Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1080940
    Quote Originally Posted by "ultravikingfan" #1080916
    I can totally understand if it appears a player is using his helmet as a weapon.

    However, there are some ridiculous fines now. The Jackson/Robinson COLLISION was bullshit. He did not lead with his helmet. Was it viscious? Hell yes. And legal too. Sure the result was pretty bad, but it's a man's game.

    Who was it that was fined (or maybe just flagged) for brushing their hand across the back of the QB's helmet? He was getting blocked wide and the QB stepped up in the pocket and his hand made contact (barely) with the back of the helmet. Just stupid.

    Outta give some of the guys tampons...starting with Goodell.
    Agreed on the Jackson/Robinson part. As far as the QB's helmet goes, they've been calling that for a long time. If you hit him in the head with your hand, there's going to be a flag 100% of the time from what I've seen. Not saying it's a good rule, but it's been that way for as long as I can remember and it's been consistent, so I can't really complain.

    I honestly think it's as simple as keeping your eyes up. If you're looking at the ground when you hit the guy, you're doing it wrong.
    For one, you do not need to be looking at the ground to lead with your helmet.

    Second, here is the penalty from the Eagles vs Indy game.

    Trent Cole is being blocked around the back or Manning. He has his arm up trying to either grab a piece of Manning or swat the ball. His hand brushes against Manning's helmet. Do you really think he was intentionally trying to club Manning in the head.

    Complete BS!

    Trent Cole

  7. #17
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: The Harrison Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by "ultravikingfan" #1081105
    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1080940
    Quote Originally Posted by "ultravikingfan" #1080916
    I can totally understand if it appears a player is using his helmet as a weapon.

    However, there are some ridiculous fines now. The Jackson/Robinson COLLISION was bullshit. He did not lead with his helmet. Was it viscious? Hell yes. And legal too. Sure the result was pretty bad, but it's a man's game.

    Who was it that was fined (or maybe just flagged) for brushing their hand across the back of the QB's helmet? He was getting blocked wide and the QB stepped up in the pocket and his hand made contact (barely) with the back of the helmet. Just stupid.

    Outta give some of the guys tampons...starting with Goodell.
    Agreed on the Jackson/Robinson part. As far as the QB's helmet goes, they've been calling that for a long time. If you hit him in the head with your hand, there's going to be a flag 100% of the time from what I've seen. Not saying it's a good rule, but it's been that way for as long as I can remember and it's been consistent, so I can't really complain.

    I honestly think it's as simple as keeping your eyes up. If you're looking at the ground when you hit the guy, you're doing it wrong.
    For one, you do not need to be looking at the ground to lead with your helmet.

    Second, here is the penalty from the Eagles vs Indy game.

    Trent Cole is being blocked around the back or Manning. He has his arm up trying to either grab a piece of Manning or swat the ball. His hand brushes against Manning's helmet. Do you really think he was intentionally trying to club Manning in the head.

    Complete BS!

    Trent Cole
    I'm not saying it's a good rule, just that they're consistent with it, which is more than can be said about most rules.

  8. #18
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: The Harrison Hit

    From Erinn on another thread:

    I spent four months researching and writing an investigative report for a journalism class on head injuries in high school football and came across a lot of interesting statistics while writing it. There was not a total lack of awareness, more likely it was an indifference or avoidance of knowledge on the part of the athletes, teams, etc. They have been collecting data on this for a long time. And I have a copy of the original article from the Chicago Tribune that brought to light the number of deaths and serious injuries in football dating back to sometime in the 1920s or around there.

    I talked to the doctors who run the The National Center for Catastrophic Sport Injury Research and the National High School Sports-Related Injury Surveillance Study, and both told me that the information has been available, it was just not always taken seriously, mostly because of the culture that surrounds athletics. However, the information they have now is more advanced than it had been in the past. They've begun collecting data from sensors placed in helmets so that they can track where a player is hit, how hard and how often.

    For people interested in having a conversation on football injuries beyond name calling these are a good read: www.unc.edu/depts/nccsi/2009AnnualFootball.pdf and www.unc.edu/depts/nccsi/2009FBCATReport.pdf

    Interesting fact: since they started collecting information in 1931, the first year without any fatalities directly related to football at any level was 1990.
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  9. #19
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: The Harrison Hit

    My solution, I suppose, is similar to that which Marrdro alluded to.....although mine is more radical.

    When players are afraid of getting hurt if they lead with the head.....they will not lead with the head.

    They will lead with their shoulder just like we did in the old days.

    I know, unlike some, I have played the game.

    Improved helmets must be combined with education, mandatory ejections, much larger fines and much stiffer penalties.

    Discipline must be on a ZERO tolerance level and fines must go to ten percent and more of the paycheck pro-rated to that game.

    Think of it this way--much harder consequences and much softer helmets.
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  10. #20
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: The Harrison Hit

    Just tuned in today and immediately I see two concussions and people being carted away.

    Yes, there's a problem.
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

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