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  1. #21
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Garcia the savior?

    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Garland" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Jereamiah" wrote:
    Garcia as a Savior? No. I have kinda been dancing around the issue, but, to say it plainly, McNabb coming in with Jackson and Bollinger as 2 & 3 respectively makes the most sense to me. And with Chilly's propensity for bringing in "his" guys, I can't but help to think that McNabb will be in purple next year. Of course all this prognostication really makes no difference as none of us are on the 'Vikes payroll. I just really hope to see McNabb in purple. Also, I am not saying that he will be a "savior", he would provide intelligent qb play and act as a rolemodel for Jackson. In that capacity, McNabb would perform far better then Garcia, in my humble opinion, Thats all I got. ;D
    I think you lost me my friend.

    Are you saying you want to have the following QB's on the roster next year?

    a. McNabb
    b. KH
    c.
    BB

    What happens to TJ?
    You just drop him?
    Bet he wouldn't last on the open market long.
    Marrdro how did you get that out of his post?

    1. Donovan McNabb
    2. Tarvaris Jackson
    3. Brooks Bollinger

    I would be so thrilled with this. I know I sound like a broken record but we should do everything in our power to make this happen. Although I would not be pissed if he does not come here. We just would have to make a huge splash in the FA market for WR and OL or via trade.
    I can agree on the first 2, but I would rather see a mif round rookie there at #3 One that could have alot of upside but maybe needs to sit a a couple of seasons and be there just in case.

    As far as Garcia he has a history of being able to do well with what he has to work with, Like mcNabb has in the past and also what Garrard has done this year.
    1. Donovan McNabb
    2. Tarvaris Jackson
    3. Chad Henne, Colt Brennan or Erik Ainge
    I actually like what I see (reading the scouting reports) and what I saw during his bowl game.
    Currently he is slotted to go in the 3rd round on most value boards.
    I suspect that his status will move up into the 2nd round after that good showing as well as if he has good individual workouts/combine.

    Might be a bit high for us to take one if we do.

    http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2008_nfl_...alue_board.htm
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #22
    nikoli's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia the savior?

    "grpape" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    I think the vikings would have been 2-3 wins better this year with Garcia but we would still have questions about jackson and the QB position as a whole, plus we would have less cap room. The team is taking a long term aproach and Garcia would have only been a short term answer.
    Finally, someone with a clue.

    Great post.
    ;D
    Yeah but the short term also pays off in the long run too. You can't deny that getting that stop gap wouldn't help TJax's development. Not to mention how huge it is for a team/city/fanbase to make the playoffs!!! Winning begets more winning people.

    We should've sold out for Brees in '06. We should've sold out for Garcia in '07. We should sell out for McNabb in '08.
    Not gonna happen though and we will struggle to remain competitive with TJax in '09.
    What do you exatcly mean by selling out? That term makes me cringe. I don't want to sell out for a one to two year band-aid. I could see maybe selling out a bit for Brees (lots of gas left in the tank), but for the other two. No thanks. I also would like to draft someone in the mid rounds with a lot of potential after sitting for a couple of years. I'm thinking Colt would be nice in the fourth or fifth (if he is still there).
    What I mean by selling out is out bidding the other teams that were going after them.
    The language and concepts contained herein are
    guaranteed not to cause eternal torment in the
    place where the guy with the horns and pointed
    stick conducts his business.

  3. #23
    nikoli's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia the savior?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    I think the vikings would have been 2-3 wins better this year with Garcia but we would still have questions about jackson and the QB position as a whole, plus we would have less cap room. The team is taking a long term aproach and Garcia would have only been a short term answer.
    Finally, someone with a clue.

    Great post.
    ;D
    Yeah but the short term also pays off in the long run too. You can't deny that getting that stop gap wouldn't help TJax's development. Not to mention how huge it is for a team/city/fanbase to make the playoffs!!! Winning begets more winning people.

    We should've sold out for Brees in '06. We should've sold out for Garcia in '07. We should sell out for McNabb in '08.

    Not gonna happen though and we will struggle to remain competitive with TJax in '09.
    I agree to a point that a Vet does help the Rookie but it always comes back to one point for me.

    Coaches coach, players play.
    The guy who continue to make sure that TJ progresses on schedule will continue to be the QB coach and not a Vet.

    Anyone remember what Lord Favre said about Rogers when he was drafted by the GB front office?

    "Let him learn on his own, I have no responsibility to teach him."
    Come on man, you don't think Rogers has benefited from being on the same team as Favre at all?

    Besides, I'm not even talking about mentoring. What I'm talking about is getting TJax time on the bench instead of feeding him to the wolves. We all saw it was a bad thing for the TEAM. We lost games we should've won with better QB play... play we would've gotten from Brees and Garcia.
    The language and concepts contained herein are
    guaranteed not to cause eternal torment in the
    place where the guy with the horns and pointed
    stick conducts his business.

  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Garcia the savior?

    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    I think the vikings would have been 2-3 wins better this year with Garcia but we would still have questions about jackson and the QB position as a whole, plus we would have less cap room. The team is taking a long term aproach and Garcia would have only been a short term answer.
    Finally, someone with a clue.

    Great post.

    ;D
    Yeah but the short term also pays off in the long run too. You can't deny that getting that stop gap wouldn't help TJax's development. Not to mention how huge it is for a team/city/fanbase to make the playoffs!!! Winning begets more winning people.

    We should've sold out for Brees in '06. We should've sold out for Garcia in '07. We should sell out for McNabb in '08.

    Not gonna happen though and we will struggle to remain competitive with TJax in '09.
    I agree to a point that a Vet does help the Rookie but it always comes back to one point for me.

    Coaches coach, players play.
    The guy who continue to make sure that TJ progresses on schedule will continue to be the QB coach and not a Vet.

    Anyone remember what Lord Favre said about Rogers when he was drafted by the GB front office?

    "Let him learn on his own, I have no responsibility to teach him."
    Come on man, you don't think Rogers has benefited from being on the same team as Favre at all?

    Besides, I'm not even talking about mentoring. What I'm talking about is getting TJax time on the bench instead of feeding him to the wolves. We all saw it was a bad thing for the TEAM. We lost games we should've won with better QB play... play we would've gotten from Brees and Garcia.
    I do think he has benifited from watching a guy like Favre but that isn't my point.
    A guy like Favre isn't gonna sit there and teach the kid how to take his job.

    Think of it this way, how would you like it if your boss said, he Nik, I want you to show this new guy, that I am paying almost nothing, is alot younger, how to do your job so he can eventually replace you before you think your ready to go?

    As to your comment of related to the "Was it right or wrong to Play TJ".
    We've beat that do death on here so many times I am sick of it, however, I do see the rationale behind letting a kid learn while doing.
    Problem is most fans aren't happy because while he is learning they will be loosing.

    Back to the whole "Instant Gratification" crowd.

    My opinion is that I am onboard with the "On the Job Training" if it gives me a team that will win consistently for years to come.
    What we were doing before wasn't working.

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    nikoli's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia the savior?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=jmcdon00 link=topic=41297.msg703725#msg703725 date=1199736452]
    I think the vikings would have been 2-3 wins better this year with Garcia but we would still have questions about jackson and the QB position as a whole, plus we would have less cap room. The team is taking a long term aproach and Garcia would have only been a short term answer.
    Finally, someone with a clue.

    Great post.
    ;D
    Yeah but the short term also pays off in the long run too. You can't deny that getting that stop gap wouldn't help TJax's development. Not to mention how huge it is for a team/city/fanbase to make the playoffs!!! Winning begets more winning people.

    We should've sold out for Brees in '06. We should've sold out for Garcia in '07. We should sell out for McNabb in '08.

    Not gonna happen though and we will struggle to remain competitive with TJax in '09.
    I agree to a point that a Vet does help the Rookie but it always comes back to one point for me.

    Coaches coach, players play.
    The guy who continue to make sure that TJ progresses on schedule will continue to be the QB coach and not a Vet.

    Anyone remember what Lord Favre said about Rogers when he was drafted by the GB front office?

    "Let him learn on his own, I have no responsibility to teach him."
    Come on man, you don't think Rogers has benefited from being on the same team as Favre at all?

    Besides, I'm not even talking about mentoring. What I'm talking about is getting TJax time on the bench instead of feeding him to the wolves. We all saw it was a bad thing for the TEAM. We lost games we should've won with better QB play... play we would've gotten from Brees and Garcia.
    I do think he has benifited from watching a guy like Favre but that isn't my point.
    A guy like Favre isn't gonna sit there and teach the kid how to take his job.

    Think of it this way, how would you like it if your boss said, he Nik, I want you to show this new guy, that I am paying almost nothing, is alot younger, how to do your job so he can eventually replace you before you think your ready to go?

    As to your comment of related to the "Was it right or wrong to Play TJ".
    We've beat that do death on here so many times I am sick of it, however, I do see the rationale behind letting a kid learn while doing.
    Problem is most fans aren't happy because while he is learning they will be loosing.

    Back to the whole "Instant Gratification" crowd.

    My opinion is that I am onboard with the "On the Job Training" if it gives me a team that will win consistently for years to come.
    What we were doing before wasn't working.


    [/quote]

    I'm not saying, nor have I suggested, that the vet starting QB should be mentoring anyone... or that it's his job and purpose to do so. What I am saying is that being on a team with a good vet that still "has it" is way more beneficial than just throwing in a raw project QB who's not even close to being NFL ready.

    You point about "how would I like it?"... I have to say I wouldn't mind it at all. Anyone that has a problem with it is just a selfish shortsighted brat. Helping groom the kid that's going to take over should be an honor. There's no way that I'd be upset about it if I were 3 or 4 years from retirement, like Favre was/is when they drafted Rogers. Esp when it can take 3-4 years before said QB (Rogers) is going to be good.

    I'll just leave the other topic alone. I think TJax got thrown in too soon and it hurt the team more than it helped... short and long term.
    The language and concepts contained herein are
    guaranteed not to cause eternal torment in the
    place where the guy with the horns and pointed
    stick conducts his business.

  6. #26
    olson_10's Avatar
    olson_10 is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Garcia the savior?

    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=41297.msg703728#msg703728 date=1199736792]
    [quote author=jmcdon00 link=topic=41297.msg703725#msg703725 date=1199736452]



    Not gonna happen though and we will struggle to remain competitive with TJax in '09.


    . We lost games we should've won with better QB play... play we would've gotten from Brees and Garcia.

    [/quote]

    . What I am saying is that being on a team with a good vet that still "has it" is way more beneficial than just throwing in a raw project QB who's not even close to being NFL ready.



    I'll just leave the other topic alone. I think TJax got thrown in too soon and it hurt the team more than it helped... short and long term.
    [/quote]
    exactly
    People who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point.

  7. #27
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: Garcia the savior?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=jmcdon00 link=topic=41297.msg703725#msg703725 date=1199736452]
    I think the vikings would have been 2-3 wins better this year with Garcia but we would still have questions about jackson and the QB position as a whole, plus we would have less cap room. The team is taking a long term aproach and Garcia would have only been a short term answer.
    Finally, someone with a clue.

    Great post.

    ;D
    Yeah but the short term also pays off in the long run too. You can't deny that getting that stop gap wouldn't help TJax's development. Not to mention how huge it is for a team/city/fanbase to make the playoffs!!! Winning begets more winning people.

    We should've sold out for Brees in '06. We should've sold out for Garcia in '07. We should sell out for McNabb in '08.

    Not gonna happen though and we will struggle to remain competitive with TJax in '09.
    I agree to a point that a Vet does help the Rookie but it always comes back to one point for me.

    Coaches coach, players play.
    The guy who continue to make sure that TJ progresses on schedule will continue to be the QB coach and not a Vet.

    Anyone remember what Lord Favre said about Rogers when he was drafted by the GB front office?

    "Let him learn on his own, I have no responsibility to teach him."
    Come on man, you don't think Rogers has benefited from being on the same team as Favre at all?

    Besides, I'm not even talking about mentoring. What I'm talking about is getting TJax time on the bench instead of feeding him to the wolves. We all saw it was a bad thing for the TEAM. We lost games we should've won with better QB play... play we would've gotten from Brees and Garcia.
    I do think he has benifited from watching a guy like Favre but that isn't my point.
    A guy like Favre isn't gonna sit there and teach the kid how to take his job.

    Think of it this way, how would you like it if your boss said, he Nik, I want you to show this new guy, that I am paying almost nothing, is alot younger, how to do your job so he can eventually replace you before you think your ready to go?

    As to your comment of related to the "Was it right or wrong to Play TJ".
    We've beat that do death on here so many times I am sick of it, however, I do see the rationale behind letting a kid learn while doing.
    Problem is most fans aren't happy because while he is learning they will be loosing.

    Back to the whole "Instant Gratification" crowd.

    My opinion is that I am onboard with the "On the Job Training" if it gives me a team that will win consistently for years to come.
    What we were doing before wasn't working.


    [/quote]
    An unselfish player should and would do whatever it takes to make the team better. If that means helping the backup get better, then that is exactly what he should do.

  8. #28
    BloodyHorns82's Avatar
    BloodyHorns82 is offline Jersey Retired Feed The Frog Champion
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    Re: Garcia the savior?

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=41297.msg703728#msg703728 date=1199736792]
    [quote author=jmcdon00 link=topic=41297.msg703725#msg703725 date=1199736452]
    I think the vikings would have been 2-3 wins better this year with Garcia but we would still have questions about jackson and the QB position as a whole, plus we would have less cap room. The team is taking a long term aproach and Garcia would have only been a short term answer.
    Finally, someone with a clue.

    Great post.

    ;D
    Yeah but the short term also pays off in the long run too. You can't deny that getting that stop gap wouldn't help TJax's development. Not to mention how huge it is for a team/city/fanbase to make the playoffs!!! Winning begets more winning people.

    We should've sold out for Brees in '06. We should've sold out for Garcia in '07. We should sell out for McNabb in '08.

    Not gonna happen though and we will struggle to remain competitive with TJax in '09.
    I agree to a point that a Vet does help the Rookie but it always comes back to one point for me.

    Coaches coach, players play.
    The guy who continue to make sure that TJ progresses on schedule will continue to be the QB coach and not a Vet.

    Anyone remember what Lord Favre said about Rogers when he was drafted by the GB front office?

    "Let him learn on his own, I have no responsibility to teach him."
    Come on man, you don't think Rogers has benefited from being on the same team as Favre at all?

    Besides, I'm not even talking about mentoring. What I'm talking about is getting TJax time on the bench instead of feeding him to the wolves. We all saw it was a bad thing for the TEAM. We lost games we should've won with better QB play... play we would've gotten from Brees and Garcia.
    I do think he has benifited from watching a guy like Favre but that isn't my point.
    A guy like Favre isn't gonna sit there and teach the kid how to take his job.

    Think of it this way, how would you like it if your boss said, he Nik, I want you to show this new guy, that I am paying almost nothing, is alot younger, how to do your job so he can eventually replace you before you think your ready to go?

    As to your comment of related to the "Was it right or wrong to Play TJ".
    We've beat that do death on here so many times I am sick of it, however, I do see the rationale behind letting a kid learn while doing.
    Problem is most fans aren't happy because while he is learning they will be loosing.

    Back to the whole "Instant Gratification" crowd.

    My opinion is that I am onboard with the "On the Job Training" if it gives me a team that will win consistently for years to come.
    What we were doing before wasn't working.


    [/quote]
    An unselfish player should and would do whatever it takes to make the team better. If that means helping the backup get better, then that is exactly what he should do.
    [/quote]

    I agree with you to a point, but on the same hand, there is a difference between being selfish and looking out for your own best interests.


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