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  1. #21
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=50329.msg901504#msg901504 date=1232895111]
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.
    Someone corrected me once on this, however, I couldn't find the post.
    Seems that the scouting staff has only been increased by a couple.

    My guess is that the increase in staff as well as (assumption) budget to actually go see the cats is what is making the difference in how our scouts perform lately.
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Well, you are pretty close to what I claim.....I claim that the scouting staff does that year round and has a very solid idea on several candidates that they want the coaching staff to look at as fits for the scheme.

    Question for you.....Do you think the coaching staff has time to scout every collegiate player at the end of the season leading up to the draft?

    My guess is that if they are relying on the coaches to do that type of scouting then we wouldn't be very effective with respect to getting the correct players in the draft.

    On a side note:
    You don't think every candidate the staff is looking at is at a Combine or Senior bowl event do you......?
    When do you think the coaches figure out if those cats are any good?

    Again, I am sure the coaches have a role/input.
    I just think thier input/role is based on watching the guys the scouts have highlighted and they are probably focusing thier efforts at things like the Senior Bowl/Combine on those candidates.


    [/quote]

    That does sound complicated.

    Maybe they use fortune cookies.

  2. #22
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=50329.msg901715#msg901715 date=1232976989]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=50329.msg901626#msg901626 date=1232922785]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=50329.msg901504#msg901504 date=1232895111]
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.
    Someone corrected me once on this, however, I couldn't find the post.
    Seems that the scouting staff has only been increased by a couple.

    My guess is that the increase in staff as well as (assumption) budget to actually go see the cats is what is making the difference in how our scouts perform lately.
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Have you ever seen Childress at one of those events?

    He probably just makes it to the combine, solely to mind floop potential draftees, and talks about 'experimental player motivation' to other coaches while drills are going on.
    [/quote]

    no, but to be honest, I can't sit at the combine for hours and watch the whole thing.
    I'll watch a bit of it, and they'll show clips of various coaches in the stands taking notes.
    Interviews frequently involve the HC.
    [/quote]

    I hope Chilly gets to coach at the senior bowl next year.
    ;D
    [/quote]
    That would be cool.
    I think it would be fun to watch his coaches work as well as listen.
    The Miche'd up stuff that NFLN did this year was cool.

    Love the stuff about keeping the toes up and thumbs up for the LB'rs and DLmen..... ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "Overlord" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Misdirection?

    Anyway, this whole idea that Green built the Cardinals is based on a fallacy.
    That is the mistaken belief that the Cardinals are a very talented team.

    Sure they have a decent amount of talent.
    Probably more than the average NFL team.
    But this amazing core of talent that Green built is a combined 20-15 over the past two years.
    They're not world beaters.
    This isn't a team like the Colts that built a great nucleus of talent that could win 12 games every year.

    What they are is a team that has played very well lately.
    Few thought that the Cardinals could get out of the first round a few weeks ago.
    What has Denny Green done since then that has turned their fortunes around?

    In my mind, the credit for their Super Bowl birth goes entirely to the current coaches and the efforts of the players over the past several weeks.
    Yea I am not so sure I give all the credit to Green, however, if he did have the power (at the Cards) he was trying to get when he was at the Vikes (bigger say in Player/personnel decisions) then he might have had a bit more say in it.

    Course if he did have that additional power then it would explain why the coaching suffered as you point out.

    To date, I haven't seen a HC do both the HC and GM role successfully and is why I hate the whole Triadthingamijib.
    The Chiller should just focus on coaching and keep his knose out of Spielmans job, if in fact he is butting in.... :
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Overlord" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Misdirection?

    Anyway, this whole idea that Green built the Cardinals is based on a fallacy.
    That is the mistaken belief that the Cardinals are a very talented team.

    Sure they have a decent amount of talent.
    Probably more than the average NFL team.
    But this amazing core of talent that Green built is a combined 20-15 over the past two years.
    They're not world beaters.
    This isn't a team like the Colts that built a great nucleus of talent that could win 12 games every year.

    What they are is a team that has played very well lately.
    Few thought that the Cardinals could get out of the first round a few weeks ago.
    What has Denny Green done since then that has turned their fortunes around?

    In my mind, the credit for their Super Bowl birth goes entirely to the current coaches and the efforts of the players over the past several weeks.
    Yea I am not so sure I give all the credit to Green, however, if he did have the power (at the Cards) he was trying to get when he was at the Vikes (bigger say in Player/personnel decisions) then he might have had a bit more say in it.

    Course if he did have that additional power then it would explain why the coaching suffered as you point out.

    To date, I haven't seen a HC do both the HC and GM role successfully and is why I hate the whole Triadthingamijib.
    The Chiller should just focus on coaching and keep his knose out of Spielmans job, if in fact he is butting in.... :

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "Mr" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Overlord" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Misdirection?

    Anyway, this whole idea that Green built the Cardinals is based on a fallacy.
    That is the mistaken belief that the Cardinals are a very talented team.

    Sure they have a decent amount of talent.
    Probably more than the average NFL team.
    But this amazing core of talent that Green built is a combined 20-15 over the past two years.
    They're not world beaters.
    This isn't a team like the Colts that built a great nucleus of talent that could win 12 games every year.

    What they are is a team that has played very well lately.
    Few thought that the Cardinals could get out of the first round a few weeks ago.
    What has Denny Green done since then that has turned their fortunes around?

    In my mind, the credit for their Super Bowl birth goes entirely to the current coaches and the efforts of the players over the past several weeks.
    Yea I am not so sure I give all the credit to Green, however, if he did have the power (at the Cards) he was trying to get when he was at the Vikes (bigger say in Player/personnel decisions) then he might have had a bit more say in it.

    Course if he did have that additional power then it would explain why the coaching suffered as you point out.

    To date, I haven't seen a HC do both the HC and GM role successfully and is why I hate the whole Triadthingamijib.
    The Chiller should just focus on coaching and keep his knose out of Spielmans job, if in fact he is butting in.... :
    He's got the power now doesn't he.

    I bet all the previous owners wish now that they would have let him shop for some grocieries...... ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    Did Einstein discover the law of the photoelectric effect?
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  7. #27
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "Prophet" wrote:
    Did Einstein discover the law of the photoelectric effect?
    I thought it was that hertz guy.... haha i totally googled it!
    ;D

  8. #28
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    Who put the bop in the bop shoo bop?

  9. #29
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Who put the bop in the bop shoo bop?
    Baby bop.

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