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  1. #11
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.

  2. #12
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.
    I think a lot of the blame falls on Red, cuz, seems to me, he never really gave full financial support to any of his HCs.
    Got to wonder, if ye ole Meathead might not have looked a lot different with a full scouting dept, FO, and support staff (asst. and position coaches)
    > ???
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.
    Someone corrected me once on this, however, I couldn't find the post.
    Seems that the scouting staff has only been increased by a couple.

    My guess is that the increase in staff as well as (assumption) budget to actually go see the cats is what is making the difference in how our scouts perform lately.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #14
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.
    Someone corrected me once on this, however, I couldn't find the post.
    Seems that the scouting staff has only been increased by a couple.

    My guess is that the increase in staff as well as (assumption) budget to actually go see the cats is what is making the difference in how our scouts perform lately.
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?

  5. #15
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.
    Someone corrected me once on this, however, I couldn't find the post.
    Seems that the scouting staff has only been increased by a couple.

    My guess is that the increase in staff as well as (assumption) budget to actually go see the cats is what is making the difference in how our scouts perform lately.
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Have you ever seen Childress at one of those events?

    He probably just makes it to the combine, solely to mind fuck potential draftees, and talks about 'experimental player motivation' to other coaches while drills are going on.

  6. #16
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=50329.msg901504#msg901504 date=1232895111]
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.
    Someone corrected me once on this, however, I couldn't find the post.
    Seems that the scouting staff has only been increased by a couple.

    My guess is that the increase in staff as well as (assumption) budget to actually go see the cats is what is making the difference in how our scouts perform lately.
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Have you ever seen Childress at one of those events?

    He probably just makes it to the combine, solely to mind fuck potential draftees, and talks about 'experimental player motivation' to other coaches while drills are going on.
    [/quote]

    no, but to be honest, I can't sit at the combine for hours and watch the whole thing.
    I'll watch a bit of it, and they'll show clips of various coaches in the stands taking notes.
    Interviews frequently involve the HC.
    I haven't noticed the Chiller, but they tend to frequently point out the "big coaches" like parcells, dungy, bellicheck, etc (when they were still coaching of course)

  7. #17
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=50329.msg901626#msg901626 date=1232922785]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=50329.msg901504#msg901504 date=1232895111]
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.
    Someone corrected me once on this, however, I couldn't find the post.
    Seems that the scouting staff has only been increased by a couple.

    My guess is that the increase in staff as well as (assumption) budget to actually go see the cats is what is making the difference in how our scouts perform lately.
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Have you ever seen Childress at one of those events?

    He probably just makes it to the combine, solely to mind fuck potential draftees, and talks about 'experimental player motivation' to other coaches while drills are going on.
    [/quote]

    no, but to be honest, I can't sit at the combine for hours and watch the whole thing.
    I'll watch a bit of it, and they'll show clips of various coaches in the stands taking notes.
    Interviews frequently involve the HC.
    [/quote]

    I hope Chilly gets to coach at the senior bowl next year.
    ;D

  8. #18
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Misdirection?

    Anyway, this whole idea that Green built the Cardinals is based on a fallacy.
    That is the mistaken belief that the Cardinals are a very talented team.

    Sure they have a decent amount of talent.
    Probably more than the average NFL team.
    But this amazing core of talent that Green built is a combined 20-15 over the past two years.
    They're not world beaters.
    This isn't a team like the Colts that built a great nucleus of talent that could win 12 games every year.

    What they are is a team that has played very well lately.
    Few thought that the Cardinals could get out of the first round a few weeks ago.
    What has Denny Green done since then that has turned their fortunes around?

    In my mind, the credit for their Super Bowl birth goes entirely to the current coaches and the efforts of the players over the past several weeks.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  9. #19
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.
    Someone corrected me once on this, however, I couldn't find the post.
    Seems that the scouting staff has only been increased by a couple.

    My guess is that the increase in staff as well as (assumption) budget to actually go see the cats is what is making the difference in how our scouts perform lately.
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Well, you are pretty close to what I claim.....I claim that the scouting staff does that year round and has a very solid idea on several candidates that they want the coaching staff to look at as fits for the scheme.

    Question for you.....Do you think the coaching staff has time to scout every collegiate player at the end of the season leading up to the draft?

    My guess is that if they are relying on the coaches to do that type of scouting then we wouldn't be very effective with respect to getting the correct players in the draft.

    On a side note:
    You don't think every candidate the staff is looking at is at a Combine or Senior bowl event do you......?
    When do you think the coaches figure out if those cats are any good?

    Again, I am sure the coaches have a role/input.
    I just think thier input/role is based on watching the guys the scouts have highlighted and they are probably focusing thier efforts at things like the Senior Bowl/Combine on those candidates.

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #20
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dennis Green Set Foundation for Arizona?

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=50329.msg901504#msg901504 date=1232895111]
    I agree with that to some extent.

    I still believe Green was brilliant at evaluating offensive talent and he certainly brought in his share here and in Arizona, but on the defensive side he was really wa hack job. Getting rid of guys like Browner and drafting guys like Duane Clemons, Derrick Alexander and the infamous Demitrius Underwood in the first round really show a lack of depth of knowledge of the defensive side of the talent pool.
    Some of that blame has to be laid at the FO feet as well.


    Lets not forget that they own the scouts that go out and watch most of the guys play games and break down all the film of vialble candidates long before the coaching staff gets involved.
    Tice was in the room. And under Red there wasn't much of a scouting dept. Tice even did a great deal of that himself.
    Someone corrected me once on this, however, I couldn't find the post.
    Seems that the scouting staff has only been increased by a couple.

    My guess is that the increase in staff as well as (assumption) budget to actually go see the cats is what is making the difference in how our scouts perform lately.
    question for you mardro...
    You know how you claim the HC has very little to do with scouting and hiring FA's right?
    well why is it that you frequently see head coaches at the combine watching and taking notes, or interviewing prospects?
    Have you ever seen Childress at one of those events?

    He probably just makes it to the combine, solely to mind floop potential draftees, and talks about 'experimental player motivation' to other coaches while drills are going on.
    [/quote]
    Truth be told, during his most recent interview on Sirius he said that he and his staff had interviewed all 60 of the cats that were at the Senior Bowl workouts.

    Long story short, the coaching staff has completed thier end of the year player review to the FO and are now heavily engaged at looking at the collegiate kids that the scouts have been looking at all year.

    My guess is that the Chiller will attend everything his calendar will allow, but Patton (Pro) and Studwell (Collegiate) along with the assistant coaches are knee deep in thier final evaluations of the talent that is available.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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