Thread: Was dealing for Derrick Harvey worth it for the Jags?

"V" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"V" wrote:

"Mr-holland" wrote:

They were really foolish but they could have been right.
They are right when Harvey becomes the best DE in the game ( Allen is the best right now ) or if Allen goes drinking and driving again. Maybe they did not want to take the risk bringing in a guy who has/had a problem with that

This is not Allen vs. Harvey in any way. This is two different scenarios of a team addressing their need. It just happens to be the same position, but its not like the teams were picking between the two.

Before the Allen trade, we were saying lets get an OT and get a DE later in the draft. We knew Harvey was out of reach. Also, Allen never even visited Jacksonville. He wasn't even on their radar.

So, I don't think they're foolish at all. Harvey doesn't have to become the best DE in the game for them to be right. Even if Allen blows it, the Jags are still wrong if Harvey doesn't pan out. To be optimistic, both teams may have made the right move for their franchise.

Your right they are different. They gave up more for a draft pick than we did for a Pro Bowl vet. We came out better IMO. They had a choice and they choose to address in the draft and we choose Allen. What makes it worse is that they gave up a lot to get Harvey.

Two times in a row you ignored the entire post just to highlight the last sentence in an effort to prevent you from doing it again I have created a run on sentence so you are forced to respond to the entire thing so first of all I agree we came out better but that does not mean the Jags came out horrible this is not us vs. them as I said before second of all just as they are wondering will he be a bust or a stud we are wondering will he be a star or a drunk to Cajun I still have not seen the criticisn of the Allen trade which you refer to to Cojo that is a bit off topic don't you think?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/080425&sportCat=nfl

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/04/23/snaps/index.html

I could look for more...but alot of the criticism came from TV analysts and I can't find clips.

"V" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"V" wrote:

"Mr-holland" wrote:

They were really foolish but they could have been right.
They are right when Harvey becomes the best DE in the game ( Allen is the best right now ) or if Allen goes drinking and driving again. Maybe they did not want to take the risk bringing in a guy who has/had a problem with that

This is not Allen vs. Harvey in any way. This is two different scenarios of a team addressing their need. It just happens to be the same position, but its not like the teams were picking between the two.

Before the Allen trade, we were saying lets get an OT and get a DE later in the draft. We knew Harvey was out of reach. Also, Allen never even visited Jacksonville. He wasn't even on their radar.

So, I don't think they're foolish at all. Harvey doesn't have to become the best DE in the game for them to be right. Even if Allen blows it, the Jags are still wrong if Harvey doesn't pan out. To be optimistic, both teams may have made the right move for their franchise.

Your right they are different. They gave up more for a draft pick than we did for a Pro Bowl vet. We came out better IMO. They had a choice and they choose to address in the draft and we choose Allen. What makes it worse is that they gave up a lot to get Harvey.

Two times in a row you ignored the entire post just to highlight the last sentence in an effort to prevent you from doing it again I have created a run on sentence so you are forced to respond to the entire thing so first of all I agree we came out better but that does not mean the Jags came out horrible this is not us vs. them as I said before second of all just as they are wondering will he be a bust or a stud we are wondering will he be a star or a drunk to Cajun I still have not seen the criticisn of the Allen trade which you refer to to Cojo that is a bit off topic don't you think?

I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.


Edit: IMHO we have less to worry about.

"marstc09" wrote:

"V" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"V" wrote:

"Mr-holland" wrote:

They were really foolish but they could have been right.
They are right when Harvey becomes the best DE in the game ( Allen is the best right now ) or if Allen goes drinking and driving again. Maybe they did not want to take the risk bringing in a guy who has/had a problem with that

This is not Allen vs. Harvey in any way. This is two different scenarios of a team addressing their need. It just happens to be the same position, but its not like the teams were picking between the two.

Before the Allen trade, we were saying lets get an OT and get a DE later in the draft. We knew Harvey was out of reach. Also, Allen never even visited Jacksonville. He wasn't even on their radar.

So, I don't think they're foolish at all. Harvey doesn't have to become the best DE in the game for them to be right. Even if Allen blows it, the Jags are still wrong if Harvey doesn't pan out. To be optimistic, both teams may have made the right move for their franchise.

Your right they are different. They gave up more for a draft pick than we did for a Pro Bowl vet. We came out better IMO. They had a choice and they choose to address in the draft and we choose Allen. What makes it worse is that they gave up a lot to get Harvey.

Two times in a row you ignored the entire post just to highlight the last sentence in an effort to prevent you from doing it again I have created a run on sentence so you are forced to respond to the entire thing so first of all I agree we came out better but that does not mean the Jags came out horrible this is not us vs. them as I said before second of all just as they are wondering will he be a bust or a stud we are wondering will he be a star or a drunk to Cajun I still have not seen the criticisn of the Allen trade which you refer to to Cojo that is a bit off topic don't you think?

I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.


Edit: IMHO we have less to worry about.

the topic of this thread has nothing to do with us at, its about the jags, lets not make it about us

"dcboardr41" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"V" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"V" wrote:

[quote author=Mr-holland link=topic=45561.msg790353#msg790353 date=1213047934]
They were really foolish but they could have been right.
They are right when Harvey becomes the best DE in the game ( Allen is the best right now ) or if Allen goes drinking and driving again. Maybe they did not want to take the risk bringing in a guy who has/had a problem with that

This is not Allen vs. Harvey in any way. This is two different scenarios of a team addressing their need. It just happens to be the same position, but its not like the teams were picking between the two.

Before the Allen trade, we were saying lets get an OT and get a DE later in the draft. We knew Harvey was out of reach. Also, Allen never even visited Jacksonville. He wasn't even on their radar.

So, I don't think they're foolish at all. Harvey doesn't have to become the best DE in the game for them to be right. Even if Allen blows it, the Jags are still wrong if Harvey doesn't pan out. To be optimistic, both teams may have made the right move for their franchise.

Your right they are different. They gave up more for a draft pick than we did for a Pro Bowl vet. We came out better IMO. They had a choice and they choose to address in the draft and we choose Allen. What makes it worse is that they gave up a lot to get Harvey.

Two times in a row you ignored the entire post just to highlight the last sentence in an effort to prevent you from doing it again I have created a run on sentence so you are forced to respond to the entire thing so first of all I agree we came out better but that does not mean the Jags came out horrible this is not us vs. them as I said before second of all just as they are wondering will he be a bust or a stud we are wondering will he be a star or a drunk to Cajun I still have not seen the criticisn of the Allen trade which you refer to to Cojo that is a bit off topic don't you think?

I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.


Edit: IMHO we have less to worry about.

the topic of this thread has nothing to do with us at, its about the jags, lets not make it about us

[/quote]

Your right. IMHO the Jags gave away too much for Harvey.

"marstc09" wrote:

"dcboardr41" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"V" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

[quote author=V link=topic=45561.msg790654#msg790654 date=1213103330]
[quote author=Mr-holland link=topic=45561.msg790353#msg790353 date=1213047934]
They were really foolish but they could have been right.
They are right when Harvey becomes the best DE in the game ( Allen is the best right now ) or if Allen goes drinking and driving again. Maybe they did not want to take the risk bringing in a guy who has/had a problem with that

This is not Allen vs. Harvey in any way. This is two different scenarios of a team addressing their need. It just happens to be the same position, but its not like the teams were picking between the two.

Before the Allen trade, we were saying lets get an OT and get a DE later in the draft. We knew Harvey was out of reach. Also, Allen never even visited Jacksonville. He wasn't even on their radar.

So, I don't think they're foolish at all. Harvey doesn't have to become the best DE in the game for them to be right. Even if Allen blows it, the Jags are still wrong if Harvey doesn't pan out. To be optimistic, both teams may have made the right move for their franchise.

Your right they are different. They gave up more for a draft pick than we did for a Pro Bowl vet. We came out better IMO. They had a choice and they choose to address in the draft and we choose Allen. What makes it worse is that they gave up a lot to get Harvey.

Two times in a row you ignored the entire post just to highlight the last sentence in an effort to prevent you from doing it again I have created a run on sentence so you are forced to respond to the entire thing so first of all I agree we came out better but that does not mean the Jags came out horrible this is not us vs. them as I said before second of all just as they are wondering will he be a bust or a stud we are wondering will he be a star or a drunk to Cajun I still have not seen the criticisn of the Allen trade which you refer to to Cojo that is a bit off topic don't you think?

I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.


Edit: IMHO we have less to worry about.

the topic of this thread has nothing to do with us at, its about the jags, lets not make it about us

[/quote]

Your right. IMHO the Jags gave away too much for Harvey.
[/quote]

IMHO +1 lol

"dcboardr41" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"dcboardr41" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"V" wrote:

[quote author=marstc09 link=topic=45561.msg790856#msg790856 date=1213133282]
[quote author=V link=topic=45561.msg790654#msg790654 date=1213103330]
[quote author=Mr-holland link=topic=45561.msg790353#msg790353 date=1213047934]
They were really foolish but they could have been right.
They are right when Harvey becomes the best DE in the game ( Allen is the best right now ) or if Allen goes drinking and driving again. Maybe they did not want to take the risk bringing in a guy who has/had a problem with that

This is not Allen vs. Harvey in any way. This is two different scenarios of a team addressing their need. It just happens to be the same position, but its not like the teams were picking between the two.

Before the Allen trade, we were saying lets get an OT and get a DE later in the draft. We knew Harvey was out of reach. Also, Allen never even visited Jacksonville. He wasn't even on their radar.

So, I don't think they're foolish at all. Harvey doesn't have to become the best DE in the game for them to be right. Even if Allen blows it, the Jags are still wrong if Harvey doesn't pan out. To be optimistic, both teams may have made the right move for their franchise.

Your right they are different. They gave up more for a draft pick than we did for a Pro Bowl vet. We came out better IMO. They had a choice and they choose to address in the draft and we choose Allen. What makes it worse is that they gave up a lot to get Harvey.

Two times in a row you ignored the entire post just to highlight the last sentence in an effort to prevent you from doing it again I have created a run on sentence so you are forced to respond to the entire thing so first of all I agree we came out better but that does not mean the Jags came out horrible this is not us vs. them as I said before second of all just as they are wondering will he be a bust or a stud we are wondering will he be a star or a drunk to Cajun I still have not seen the criticisn of the Allen trade which you refer to to Cojo that is a bit off topic don't you think?

I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.


Edit: IMHO we have less to worry about.

the topic of this thread has nothing to do with us at, its about the jags, lets not make it about us

[/quote]

Your right. IMHO the Jags gave away too much for Harvey.
[/quote]

IMHO +1 lol
[/quote]

I'm glad we're back on track. I think the Jags don't have many holes, so giving up a lot was ok.

"V" wrote:

"dcboardr41" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"dcboardr41" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

[quote author=V link=topic=45561.msg791146#msg791146 date=1213206254]
[quote author=marstc09 link=topic=45561.msg790856#msg790856 date=1213133282]
[quote author=V link=topic=45561.msg790654#msg790654 date=1213103330]
[quote author=Mr-holland link=topic=45561.msg790353#msg790353 date=1213047934]
They were really foolish but they could have been right.
They are right when Harvey becomes the best DE in the game ( Allen is the best right now ) or if Allen goes drinking and driving again. Maybe they did not want to take the risk bringing in a guy who has/had a problem with that

This is not Allen vs. Harvey in any way. This is two different scenarios of a team addressing their need. It just happens to be the same position, but its not like the teams were picking between the two.

Before the Allen trade, we were saying lets get an OT and get a DE later in the draft. We knew Harvey was out of reach. Also, Allen never even visited Jacksonville. He wasn't even on their radar.

So, I don't think they're foolish at all. Harvey doesn't have to become the best DE in the game for them to be right. Even if Allen blows it, the Jags are still wrong if Harvey doesn't pan out. To be optimistic, both teams may have made the right move for their franchise.

Your right they are different. They gave up more for a draft pick than we did for a Pro Bowl vet. We came out better IMO. They had a choice and they choose to address in the draft and we choose Allen. What makes it worse is that they gave up a lot to get Harvey.

Two times in a row you ignored the entire post just to highlight the last sentence in an effort to prevent you from doing it again I have created a run on sentence so you are forced to respond to the entire thing so first of all I agree we came out better but that does not mean the Jags came out horrible this is not us vs. them as I said before second of all just as they are wondering will he be a bust or a stud we are wondering will he be a star or a drunk to Cajun I still have not seen the criticisn of the Allen trade which you refer to to Cojo that is a bit off topic don't you think?

I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.


Edit: IMHO we have less to worry about.

the topic of this thread has nothing to do with us at, its about the jags, lets not make it about us

[/quote]

Your right. IMHO the Jags gave away too much for Harvey.
[/quote]

IMHO +1 lol
[/quote]

I'm glad we're back on track. I think the Jags don't have many holes, so giving up a lot was ok.
[/quote]

Your probably right. They did draft Quentin Groves as well. Hurting for a DE indeed. What about Safety? I'm I correct, is Brian Williams starting at FS? Ouch.

"marstc09" wrote:

"V" wrote:

"dcboardr41" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"dcboardr41" wrote:

[quote author=marstc09 link=topic=45561.msg791225#msg791225 date=1213216150]
[quote author=V link=topic=45561.msg791146#msg791146 date=1213206254]
[quote author=marstc09 link=topic=45561.msg790856#msg790856 date=1213133282]
[quote author=V link=topic=45561.msg790654#msg790654 date=1213103330]
[quote author=Mr-holland link=topic=45561.msg790353#msg790353 date=1213047934]
They were really foolish but they could have been right.
They are right when Harvey becomes the best DE in the game ( Allen is the best right now ) or if Allen goes drinking and driving again. Maybe they did not want to take the risk bringing in a guy who has/had a problem with that

This is not Allen vs. Harvey in any way. This is two different scenarios of a team addressing their need. It just happens to be the same position, but its not like the teams were picking between the two.

Before the Allen trade, we were saying lets get an OT and get a DE later in the draft. We knew Harvey was out of reach. Also, Allen never even visited Jacksonville. He wasn't even on their radar.

So, I don't think they're foolish at all. Harvey doesn't have to become the best DE in the game for them to be right. Even if Allen blows it, the Jags are still wrong if Harvey doesn't pan out. To be optimistic, both teams may have made the right move for their franchise.

Your right they are different. They gave up more for a draft pick than we did for a Pro Bowl vet. We came out better IMO. They had a choice and they choose to address in the draft and we choose Allen. What makes it worse is that they gave up a lot to get Harvey.

Two times in a row you ignored the entire post just to highlight the last sentence in an effort to prevent you from doing it again I have created a run on sentence so you are forced to respond to the entire thing so first of all I agree we came out better but that does not mean the Jags came out horrible this is not us vs. them as I said before second of all just as they are wondering will he be a bust or a stud we are wondering will he be a star or a drunk to Cajun I still have not seen the criticisn of the Allen trade which you refer to to Cojo that is a bit off topic don't you think?

I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.


Edit: IMHO we have less to worry about.

the topic of this thread has nothing to do with us at, its about the jags, lets not make it about us

[/quote]

Your right. IMHO the Jags gave away too much for Harvey.
[/quote]

IMHO +1 lol
[/quote]

I'm glad we're back on track. I think the Jags don't have many holes, so giving up a lot was ok.
[/quote]

Your probably right. They did draft Quentin Groves as well. Hurting for a DE indeed. What about Safety? I'm I correct, is Brian Williams starting at FS? Ouch.
[/quote]

they have reggie nelson at FS, i dunno who their SS is

Everyone seems to thinks the Jags gave up a lot to move up, but I strongly disagree.


Take a look at the trade chart values for the picks (both the old and new chart values are provided):

Team	Pick #	Old Pts.	New Pts.
BAL	8	1400	1505
JAX	26	700	820
JAX	71	235	235
JAX	89	145	145
JAX	125	47	47
JAX	Total	1127	1247

As you can see, the Ravens gave up a bunch more points than the Jags.
This is actually the largest points disparity over at least the past 3 years (probably longer) for pure draft pick trades.

Obviously the question at the end of the day is did they pick good players with those picks.
But in terms of what they gave up at the time and the NFL draft trade market, the Jags got a good deal.

"dcboardr41" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"V" wrote:

"dcboardr41" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

[quote author=dcboardr41 link=topic=45561.msg791236#msg791236 date=1213217319]
[quote author=marstc09 link=topic=45561.msg791225#msg791225 date=1213216150]
[quote author=V link=topic=45561.msg791146#msg791146 date=1213206254]
[quote author=marstc09 link=topic=45561.msg790856#msg790856 date=1213133282]
[quote author=V link=topic=45561.msg790654#msg790654 date=1213103330]
[quote author=Mr-holland link=topic=45561.msg790353#msg790353 date=1213047934]
They were really foolish but they could have been right.
They are right when Harvey becomes the best DE in the game ( Allen is the best right now ) or if Allen goes drinking and driving again. Maybe they did not want to take the risk bringing in a guy who has/had a problem with that

This is not Allen vs. Harvey in any way. This is two different scenarios of a team addressing their need. It just happens to be the same position, but its not like the teams were picking between the two.

Before the Allen trade, we were saying lets get an OT and get a DE later in the draft. We knew Harvey was out of reach. Also, Allen never even visited Jacksonville. He wasn't even on their radar.

So, I don't think they're foolish at all. Harvey doesn't have to become the best DE in the game for them to be right. Even if Allen blows it, the Jags are still wrong if Harvey doesn't pan out. To be optimistic, both teams may have made the right move for their franchise.

Your right they are different. They gave up more for a draft pick than we did for a Pro Bowl vet. We came out better IMO. They had a choice and they choose to address in the draft and we choose Allen. What makes it worse is that they gave up a lot to get Harvey.

Two times in a row you ignored the entire post just to highlight the last sentence in an effort to prevent you from doing it again I have created a run on sentence so you are forced to respond to the entire thing so first of all I agree we came out better but that does not mean the Jags came out horrible this is not us vs. them as I said before second of all just as they are wondering will he be a bust or a stud we are wondering will he be a star or a drunk to Cajun I still have not seen the criticisn of the Allen trade which you refer to to Cojo that is a bit off topic don't you think?

I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.


Edit: IMHO we have less to worry about.

the topic of this thread has nothing to do with us at, its about the jags, lets not make it about us

[/quote]

Your right. IMHO the Jags gave away too much for Harvey.
[/quote]

IMHO +1 lol
[/quote]

I'm glad we're back on track. I think the Jags don't have many holes, so giving up a lot was ok.
[/quote]

Your probably right. They did draft Quentin Groves as well. Hurting for a DE indeed. What about Safety? I'm I correct, is Brian Williams starting at FS? Ouch.
[/quote]

they have reggie nelson at FS, i dunno who their SS is
[/quote]

Are you sure?

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/depth-chart/JAC