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  1. #21
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Dallas: A better situation for Brad Johnson

    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "RK." wrote:
    In three years we have gone from Brad Johnson to Gus Frerotte.
    : Is it just me or am I missing some big difference.
    If we had just stayed with Brad wouldn't we be in about the same place at the QB position?

    Personally I liked BJ and was surprised when he was traded.
    I see both of them in about the same light when it comes to their skills and ability.

    It will really piss me off if BJ takes the Cowboys to the Super Bowl.
    It would be another nail in the Childress coffin as well....meaning its not the players its the plan that is holding us back.
    Only thing they have common is that they are both old and neither of them should be a starter in the NFL.
    With BJ our offense was much worser than the one we have now.. at least now we go up the field ( until AD fumbles the ball ) 2 years ago we had 3 plays and punted. I can't believe you're high on BJ.. come on you watched those games didn't you? Granted we have a better receiving group now but still BJ wouldn't have done better
    I watched those games and I also saw a terrible front line that couldn't block for him and I also saw a lot of dropped passes.
    Blame BJ all you want but he was not always at fault.
    There were only a couple of games in which he could be blamed but don't blame everything on BJ.
    It is simply not true.
    Everyone always said BJ couldn't get the ball down field.
    I tend to disagree.
    He didn't have the world's strongest arm but he was certainly able to hit people down the field.
    It was catching the ball thaat gave the Vikings their problems.
    BJ is one of the most accurate QBs in the league which is something this team lacks right now.
    Neither Gus or TJ is as accurate as BJ.
    Brad has a 61.8% completion rate.
    Nor do either of them have a better winning %.
    To say we are better off without him just isn't true given the choices we have now.
    BJ can manage a game better.
    He is accurate when throwing the ball which I am sure everyone on here gets frustrated watching the games because of inaccurate throws.
    I know I do.
    Thank you.
    How good was the o-line play in '05? BJ could only hand out the ball and dump it 5 yards out. Couldn't make a throw over 20 yards. Also he had his fair share of INT's (14 only 8TD's ), couldn't move around and like Frerotte could not convert on third down. I agreed we had worse receivers then.. but BJ was not good.. why do you think he was benched for Bollinger?
    He was not good in maybe two of those games in 2006.
    Again, he had no protection and had no WRs to throw the ball to.
    They kept dropping them.
    Stats alone do not tell the entire story that season.

  2. #22
    Mr-holland's Avatar
    Mr-holland is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Dallas: A better situation for Brad Johnson

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    [quote author=RK. link=topic=48520.msg852082#msg852082 date=1223956493]
    In three years we have gone from Brad Johnson to Gus Frerotte.
    : Is it just me or am I missing some big difference.
    If we had just stayed with Brad wouldn't we be in about the same place at the QB position?

    Personally I liked BJ and was surprised when he was traded.
    I see both of them in about the same light when it comes to their skills and ability.

    It will really piss me off if BJ takes the Cowboys to the Super Bowl.
    It would be another nail in the Childress coffin as well....meaning its not the players its the plan that is holding us back.
    Only thing they have common is that they are both old and neither of them should be a starter in the NFL.
    With BJ our offense was much worser than the one we have now.. at least now we go up the field ( until AD fumbles the ball ) 2 years ago we had 3 plays and punted. I can't believe you're high on BJ.. come on you watched those games didn't you? Granted we have a better receiving group now but still BJ wouldn't have done better
    I watched those games and I also saw a terrible front line that couldn't block for him and I also saw a lot of dropped passes.
    Blame BJ all you want but he was not always at fault.
    There were only a couple of games in which he could be blamed but don't blame everything on BJ.
    It is simply not true.
    Everyone always said BJ couldn't get the ball down field.
    I tend to disagree.
    He didn't have the world's strongest arm but he was certainly able to hit people down the field.
    It was catching the ball thaat gave the Vikings their problems.
    BJ is one of the most accurate QBs in the league which is something this team lacks right now.
    Neither Gus or TJ is as accurate as BJ.
    Brad has a 61.8% completion rate.
    Nor do either of them have a better winning %.
    To say we are better off without him just isn't true given the choices we have now.
    BJ can manage a game better.
    He is accurate when throwing the ball which I am sure everyone on here gets frustrated watching the games because of inaccurate throws.
    I know I do.
    Thank you.
    How good was the o-line play in '05? BJ could only hand out the ball and dump it 5 yards out. Couldn't make a throw over 20 yards. Also he had his fair share of INT's (14 only 8TD's ), couldn't move around and like Frerotte could not convert on third down. I agreed we had worse receivers then.. but BJ was not good.. why do you think he was benched for Bollinger?
    He was not good in maybe two of those games in 2006.
    Again, he had no protection and had no WRs to throw the ball to.
    They kept dropping them.
    Stats alone do not tell the entire story that season.
    [/quote]
    Stats are facts right? his completion percentage is excellent but for how many yards did these completions go? The receivers weren't all that good but it's not like them dropping balls would have changed his play all that much. we have had players dropping receptions this year and last year haven't we?
    Rosie O'Donnell is a dude!

  3. #23
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
    jargomcfargo is offline Ring of Fame
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    4,776

    Re: Dallas: A better situation for Brad Johnson

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "RK." wrote:
    In three years we have gone from Brad Johnson to Gus Frerotte.
    : Is it just me or am I missing some big difference.
    If we had just stayed with Brad wouldn't we be in about the same place at the QB position?

    Personally I liked BJ and was surprised when he was traded.
    I see both of them in about the same light when it comes to their skills and ability.

    It will really piss me off if BJ takes the Cowboys to the Super Bowl.
    It would be another nail in the Childress coffin as well....meaning its not the players its the plan that is holding us back.
    Only thing they have common is that they are both old and neither of them should be a starter in the NFL.
    With BJ our offense was much worser than the one we have now.. at least now we go up the field ( until AD fumbles the ball ) 2 years ago we had 3 plays and punted. I can't believe you're high on BJ.. come on you watched those games didn't you? Granted we have a better receiving group now but still BJ wouldn't have done better
    I watched those games and I also saw a terrible front line that couldn't block for him and I also saw a lot of dropped passes.
    Blame BJ all you want but he was not always at fault.
    There were only a couple of games in which he could be blamed but don't blame everything on BJ.
    It is simply not true.
    Everyone always said BJ couldn't get the ball down field.
    I tend to disagree.
    He didn't have the world's strongest arm but he was certainly able to hit people down the field.
    It was catching the ball thaat gave the Vikings their problems.
    BJ is one of the most accurate QBs in the league which is something this team lacks right now.
    Neither Gus or TJ is as accurate as BJ.
    Brad has a 61.8% completion rate.
    Nor do either of them have a better winning %.
    To say we are better off without him just isn't true given the choices we have now.
    BJ can manage a game better.
    He is accurate when throwing the ball which I am sure everyone on here gets frustrated watching the games because of inaccurate throws.
    I know I do.
    Thank you.
    Goes for me too.
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  4. #24
    Mr-holland's Avatar
    Mr-holland is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Dallas: A better situation for Brad Johnson

    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "RK." wrote:
    In three years we have gone from Brad Johnson to Gus Frerotte.
    : Is it just me or am I missing some big difference.
    If we had just stayed with Brad wouldn't we be in about the same place at the QB position?

    Personally I liked BJ and was surprised when he was traded.
    I see both of them in about the same light when it comes to their skills and ability.

    It will really piss me off if BJ takes the Cowboys to the Super Bowl.
    It would be another nail in the Childress coffin as well....meaning its not the players its the plan that is holding us back.
    Only thing they have common is that they are both old and neither of them should be a starter in the NFL.
    With BJ our offense was much worser than the one we have now.. at least now we go up the field ( until AD fumbles the ball ) 2 years ago we had 3 plays and punted. I can't believe you're high on BJ.. come on you watched those games didn't you? Granted we have a better receiving group now but still BJ wouldn't have done better
    I watched those games and I also saw a terrible front line that couldn't block for him and I also saw a lot of dropped passes.
    Blame BJ all you want but he was not always at fault.
    There were only a couple of games in which he could be blamed but don't blame everything on BJ.
    It is simply not true.
    Everyone always said BJ couldn't get the ball down field.
    I tend to disagree.
    He didn't have the world's strongest arm but he was certainly able to hit people down the field.
    It was catching the ball thaat gave the Vikings their problems.
    BJ is one of the most accurate QBs in the league which is something this team lacks right now.
    Neither Gus or TJ is as accurate as BJ.
    Brad has a 61.8% completion rate.
    Nor do either of them have a better winning %.
    To say we are better off without him just isn't true given the choices we have now.
    BJ can manage a game better.
    He is accurate when throwing the ball which I am sure everyone on here gets frustrated watching the games because of inaccurate throws.
    I know I do.
    Thank you.
    Goes for me too.
    Come on!! nobody knows how horrible that offense was under BJ?!
    Rosie O'Donnell is a dude!

  5. #25
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Posts
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    Re: Dallas: A better situation for Brad Johnson

    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    [quote author=Mr-holland link=topic=48520.msg852133#msg852133 date=1223974602]
    [quote author=RK. link=topic=48520.msg852082#msg852082 date=1223956493]
    In three years we have gone from Brad Johnson to Gus Frerotte.
    : Is it just me or am I missing some big difference.
    If we had just stayed with Brad wouldn't we be in about the same place at the QB position?

    Personally I liked BJ and was surprised when he was traded.
    I see both of them in about the same light when it comes to their skills and ability.

    It will really piss me off if BJ takes the Cowboys to the Super Bowl.
    It would be another nail in the Childress coffin as well....meaning its not the players its the plan that is holding us back.
    Only thing they have common is that they are both old and neither of them should be a starter in the NFL.
    With BJ our offense was much worser than the one we have now.. at least now we go up the field ( until AD fumbles the ball ) 2 years ago we had 3 plays and punted. I can't believe you're high on BJ.. come on you watched those games didn't you? Granted we have a better receiving group now but still BJ wouldn't have done better
    I watched those games and I also saw a terrible front line that couldn't block for him and I also saw a lot of dropped passes.
    Blame BJ all you want but he was not always at fault.
    There were only a couple of games in which he could be blamed but don't blame everything on BJ.
    It is simply not true.
    Everyone always said BJ couldn't get the ball down field.
    I tend to disagree.
    He didn't have the world's strongest arm but he was certainly able to hit people down the field.
    It was catching the ball thaat gave the Vikings their problems.
    BJ is one of the most accurate QBs in the league which is something this team lacks right now.
    Neither Gus or TJ is as accurate as BJ.
    Brad has a 61.8% completion rate.
    Nor do either of them have a better winning %.
    To say we are better off without him just isn't true given the choices we have now.
    BJ can manage a game better.
    He is accurate when throwing the ball which I am sure everyone on here gets frustrated watching the games because of inaccurate throws.
    I know I do.
    Thank you.
    How good was the o-line play in '05? BJ could only hand out the ball and dump it 5 yards out. Couldn't make a throw over 20 yards. Also he had his fair share of INT's (14 only 8TD's ), couldn't move around and like Frerotte could not convert on third down. I agreed we had worse receivers then.. but BJ was not good.. why do you think he was benched for Bollinger?
    He was not good in maybe two of those games in 2006.
    Again, he had no protection and had no WRs to throw the ball to.
    They kept dropping them.
    Stats alone do not tell the entire story that season.
    [/quote]
    Stats are facts right? his completion percentage is excellent but for how many yards did these completions go? The receivers weren't all that good but it's not like them dropping balls would have changed his play all that much. we have had players dropping receptions this year and last year haven't we?[/quote]

    Stats are stats and nothing more.
    Positive yards are better than no yardage.
    Dropping balls WOULD have changed his play without a doubt.
    Once Chilly saw that WRs couldn't catch they ran the ball even more.
    Yes WRs have had their drops this year and last year.
    But no where's near the same ratio.
    There are more weapons now.
    Berrian is better than TWill as a #1.
    Rice is better than whoever than T. Taylor as #2.
    Wade is better than Marcus Robinson.
    Allison is better than Billy McMullen as #4.
    I would even venture to say Allison as the #4 was better than TWill was at #1 in 2006 and pretty much better than any of the WRs from 2006.

    It makes a huge difference.

  6. #26
    ragz's Avatar
    ragz is offline GM
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    Re: Dallas: A better situation for Brad Johnson

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=48520.msg852148#msg852148 date=1223984548]
    [quote author=Mr-holland link=topic=48520.msg852133#msg852133 date=1223974602]
    [quote author=RK. link=topic=48520.msg852082#msg852082 date=1223956493]
    In three years we have gone from Brad Johnson to Gus Frerotte.
    : Is it just me or am I missing some big difference.
    If we had just stayed with Brad wouldn't we be in about the same place at the QB position?

    Personally I liked BJ and was surprised when he was traded.
    I see both of them in about the same light when it comes to their skills and ability.

    It will really piss me off if BJ takes the Cowboys to the Super Bowl.
    It would be another nail in the Childress coffin as well....meaning its not the players its the plan that is holding us back.
    Only thing they have common is that they are both old and neither of them should be a starter in the NFL.
    With BJ our offense was much worser than the one we have now.. at least now we go up the field ( until AD fumbles the ball ) 2 years ago we had 3 plays and punted. I can't believe you're high on BJ.. come on you watched those games didn't you? Granted we have a better receiving group now but still BJ wouldn't have done better
    I watched those games and I also saw a terrible front line that couldn't block for him and I also saw a lot of dropped passes.
    Blame BJ all you want but he was not always at fault.
    There were only a couple of games in which he could be blamed but don't blame everything on BJ.
    It is simply not true.
    Everyone always said BJ couldn't get the ball down field.
    I tend to disagree.
    He didn't have the world's strongest arm but he was certainly able to hit people down the field.
    It was catching the ball thaat gave the Vikings their problems.
    BJ is one of the most accurate QBs in the league which is something this team lacks right now.
    Neither Gus or TJ is as accurate as BJ.
    Brad has a 61.8% completion rate.
    Nor do either of them have a better winning %.
    To say we are better off without him just isn't true given the choices we have now.
    BJ can manage a game better.
    He is accurate when throwing the ball which I am sure everyone on here gets frustrated watching the games because of inaccurate throws.
    I know I do.
    Thank you.
    How good was the o-line play in '05? BJ could only hand out the ball and dump it 5 yards out. Couldn't make a throw over 20 yards. Also he had his fair share of INT's (14 only 8TD's ), couldn't move around and like Frerotte could not convert on third down. I agreed we had worse receivers then.. but BJ was not good.. why do you think he was benched for Bollinger?
    He was not good in maybe two of those games in 2006.
    Again, he had no protection and had no WRs to throw the ball to.
    They kept dropping them.
    Stats alone do not tell the entire story that season.
    [/quote]
    Stats are facts right? his completion percentage is excellent but for how many yards did these completions go? The receivers weren't all that good but it's not like them dropping balls would have changed his play all that much. we have had players dropping receptions this year and last year haven't we?[/quote]

    Stats are stats and nothing more.
    Positive yards are better than no yardage.
    Dropping balls WOULD have changed his play without a doubt.
    Once Chilly saw that WRs couldn't catch they ran the ball even more.
    Yes WRs have had their drops this year and last year.
    But no where's near the same ratio.
    There are more weapons now.
    Berrian is better than TWill as a #1.
    Rice is better than whoever than T. Taylor as #2.
    Wade is better than Marcus Robinson.
    Allison is better than Billy McMullen as #4.
    I would even venture to say Allison as the #4 was better than TWill was at #1 in 2006 and pretty much better than any of the WRs from 2006.

    It makes a huge difference.
    [/quote]
    i think you guys are focusing on the wrong part of the article.
    one of johnsons strenghts was making presnap reads, but the article claims the ability to check out of plays was taken away from a savy vet.
    same has probably gone for all our qbs.
    makes you think that maybe being consistently crappy on 3rd downs has something to do with not being able to change anything no matter what the defense is set up to do.
    but the fact is johnson that year felt like the problem cuz it was a new offense and all, but now looking back after another full year and 6 games of the same kinda struggles you realize it wasn't really him.


    but again you see the ego being more important than success on the field.
    i mean why would a 10+ year veteran who has won a super bowl not be able to change outta plays if he sees something?
    childress has been inflexible until his job is basically on the line now, and has usually sent anyone packing who even asked a question about it.
    "self improvement's masturbation.
    now self destruction" that's enlightenment

  7. #27
    JPPT1974's Avatar
    JPPT1974 is offline Starter
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    Re: Dallas: A better situation for Brad Johnson

    Seems that Johnson is a journeyman.
    That has been there and done that.
    Can't believe he has last as long in this league.
    Both as a backup and starter.
    NFL 2013 is Here!

  8. #28
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Dallas: A better situation for Brad Johnson

    "ragz" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=48520.msg852165#msg852165 date=1223986442]
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=48520.msg852148#msg852148 date=1223984548]
    [quote author=Mr-holland link=topic=48520.msg852133#msg852133 date=1223974602]
    [quote author=RK. link=topic=48520.msg852082#msg852082 date=1223956493]
    In three years we have gone from Brad Johnson to Gus Frerotte.
    : Is it just me or am I missing some big difference.
    If we had just stayed with Brad wouldn't we be in about the same place at the QB position?

    Personally I liked BJ and was surprised when he was traded.
    I see both of them in about the same light when it comes to their skills and ability.

    It will really piss me off if BJ takes the Cowboys to the Super Bowl.
    It would be another nail in the Childress coffin as well....meaning its not the players its the plan that is holding us back.
    Only thing they have common is that they are both old and neither of them should be a starter in the NFL.
    With BJ our offense was much worser than the one we have now.. at least now we go up the field ( until AD fumbles the ball ) 2 years ago we had 3 plays and punted. I can't believe you're high on BJ.. come on you watched those games didn't you? Granted we have a better receiving group now but still BJ wouldn't have done better
    I watched those games and I also saw a terrible front line that couldn't block for him and I also saw a lot of dropped passes.
    Blame BJ all you want but he was not always at fault.
    There were only a couple of games in which he could be blamed but don't blame everything on BJ.
    It is simply not true.
    Everyone always said BJ couldn't get the ball down field.
    I tend to disagree.
    He didn't have the world's strongest arm but he was certainly able to hit people down the field.
    It was catching the ball thaat gave the Vikings their problems.
    BJ is one of the most accurate QBs in the league which is something this team lacks right now.
    Neither Gus or TJ is as accurate as BJ.
    Brad has a 61.8% completion rate.
    Nor do either of them have a better winning %.
    To say we are better off without him just isn't true given the choices we have now.
    BJ can manage a game better.
    He is accurate when throwing the ball which I am sure everyone on here gets frustrated watching the games because of inaccurate throws.
    I know I do.
    Thank you.
    How good was the o-line play in '05? BJ could only hand out the ball and dump it 5 yards out. Couldn't make a throw over 20 yards. Also he had his fair share of INT's (14 only 8TD's ), couldn't move around and like Frerotte could not convert on third down. I agreed we had worse receivers then.. but BJ was not good.. why do you think he was benched for Bollinger?
    He was not good in maybe two of those games in 2006.
    Again, he had no protection and had no WRs to throw the ball to.
    They kept dropping them.
    Stats alone do not tell the entire story that season.
    [/quote]
    Stats are facts right? his completion percentage is excellent but for how many yards did these completions go? The receivers weren't all that good but it's not like them dropping balls would have changed his play all that much. we have had players dropping receptions this year and last year haven't we?[/quote]

    Stats are stats and nothing more.
    Positive yards are better than no yardage.
    Dropping balls WOULD have changed his play without a doubt.
    Once Chilly saw that WRs couldn't catch they ran the ball even more.
    Yes WRs have had their drops this year and last year.
    But no where's near the same ratio.
    There are more weapons now.
    Berrian is better than TWill as a #1.
    Rice is better than whoever than T. Taylor as #2.
    Wade is better than Marcus Robinson.
    Allison is better than Billy McMullen as #4.
    I would even venture to say Allison as the #4 was better than TWill was at #1 in 2006 and pretty much better than any of the WRs from 2006.

    It makes a huge difference.
    [/quote]
    i think you guys are focusing on the wrong part of the article.
    one of johnsons strenghts was making presnap reads, but the article claims the ability to check out of plays was taken away from a savy vet.
    same has probably gone for all our qbs.
    makes you think that maybe being consistently crappy on 3rd downs has something to do with not being able to change anything no matter what the defense is set up to do.
    but the fact is johnson that year felt like the problem cuz it was a new offense and all, but now looking back after another full year and 6 games of the same kinda struggles you realize it wasn't really him.


    but again you see the ego being more important than success on the field.
    i mean why would a 10+ year veteran who has won a super bowl not be able to change outta plays if he sees something?
    childress has been inflexible until his job is basically on the line now, and has usually sent anyone packing who even asked a question about it.

    [/quote]

    You make a good point that I didn't even remember.
    Making pre-snap reads was taken away from him as well.
    Good post!

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