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  1. #21
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Cover 2 disected

    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    I disagree. That EJ Henderson guy is going to make a HORRIBLE MLB in the Tampa 2. We need to cut him and start Napoleon Harris or Dontarrious Thomas, or maybe pick up Julian Peterson or Mike Peterson in FA.

    Chilly is going to be great!
    Hooray for Daunte!
    LOL, just goes to show how much us yutz fans really know.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #22
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Cover 2 disected

    "Del" wrote:


    The entire concept of the Cover 2 is to make it hard to pass on you.




    Could have fooled me, I thought we were just trying to tire them out by letting them complete all of those passes all game long in the hopes they would tire in the 4th and allow us to kick a game winning FG.

  3. #23
    BleedinPandG is offline Coach
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    Re: Cover 2 disected

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:


    The entire concept of the Cover 2 is to make it hard to pass on you.




    Could have fooled me, I thought we were just trying to tire them out by letting them complete all of those passes all game long in the hopes they would tire in the 4th and allow us to kick a game winning FG.
    In a good Cover 2 you have 7 people dropping into coverage and a line that gets to the QB fairly quickly.
    That leaves a lot of defensive shirts running around for a QB to throw between.
    The more time the QB gets, the more time the receivers have to run deeper routes, the more space that is put between all of the defensive players.
    It's a time and area (square feet) game.
    The true measure of a man is what he'd do knowing he'd never be found out.

  4. #24
    VikingMike's Avatar
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    Re: Cover 2 disected

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "VikingMike" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "whackthepack" wrote:
    In the Tampa 2 you also need to have CB's that can bump the receiver at the line, this helps take away some of the deep threat exposure.
    We don't bump at all IMO

    Not at all...I'd like to see Griffin chuck the receiver to throw him off his route and mess up the timing. It would also force him to play on the receiver and maybe break up a pass now and then.
    Oh I'm not so sure on that.


    I don't actually see what happens at the snap (and it applies to all of you watching on TV as well) but I have seen both Griff and Whinny playing up tight alot more this year than they did last year.

    Are they "Chucking" the WR's?
    Again, I am not sure, however, the cushion that they typically give isn't there when they do it.

    Said it before and I will say it again, I really think that we are tipping our hand to early on the defensive side of the ball.
    Watch close, when the CB's are up on the line, 90% (pulled that out of my jiggly butt) we will be sending two LB's and they both will be showing the gap they are gonna hit.

    The other 10% (again, out of my jiggly butt) the LB's show but then backout.

    Edit:
    By the way, love the original post Del.
    Oldy but a goodie.
    If your time allows, you need to do some more like this.

    ;D

    I personally have never liked the cover 2 scheme...it's too "passive", letting the offense make plays but "theoretically" taking away the big plays. We've given up too many big plays this year for my liking.

    I'm satisfied with the pressure applied by the D-line, but I don't like the coverage on pass plays...this year and the previous few years. Singling out Griffin and Sharper is too easy...maybe it's the personnel, but again, I'd rather play some sort of hybrid where the CB's have some man responsibilities.
    Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H.L. Mencken

    Come from the land of the ice and snow...

  5. #25
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Cover 2 disected

    "VikingMike" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "VikingMike" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "whackthepack" wrote:
    In the Tampa 2 you also need to have CB's that can bump the receiver at the line, this helps take away some of the deep threat exposure.
    We don't bump at all IMO

    Not at all...I'd like to see Griffin chuck the receiver to throw him off his route and mess up the timing. It would also force him to play on the receiver and maybe break up a pass now and then.
    Oh I'm not so sure on that.


    I don't actually see what happens at the snap (and it applies to all of you watching on TV as well) but I have seen both Griff and Whinny playing up tight alot more this year than they did last year.

    Are they "Chucking" the WR's?
    Again, I am not sure, however, the cushion that they typically give isn't there when they do it.

    Said it before and I will say it again, I really think that we are tipping our hand to early on the defensive side of the ball.
    Watch close, when the CB's are up on the line, 90% (pulled that out of my jiggly butt) we will be sending two LB's and they both will be showing the gap they are gonna hit.

    The other 10% (again, out of my jiggly butt) the LB's show but then backout.

    Edit:
    By the way, love the original post Del.
    Oldy but a goodie.
    If your time allows, you need to do some more like this.

    ;D

    I personally have never liked the cover 2 scheme...it's too "passive", letting the offense make plays but "theoretically" taking away the big plays. We've given up too many big plays this year for my liking.

    I'm satisfied with the pressure applied by the D-line, but I don't like the coverage on pass plays...this year and the previous few years. Singling out Griffin and Sharper is too easy...maybe it's the personnel, but again, I'd rather play some sort of hybrid where the CB's have some man responsibilities.
    Actually I don't think we have had a good cover 2 defense since Dungy left.

  6. #26
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: Cover 2 disected

    Too often the cover 2 becomes the cover 0.
    It's like employing a prevent defense full time.
    It's a low risk low reward defense.

    It has been effective for us in that we keep the score low most of the time. But it keeps the defense on the field too long. Many times they have a hard time getting off the field on third down.



    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  7. #27
    tastywaves's Avatar
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    Re: Cover 2 disected

    I think one of the key points is that the cover 2 was designed primarily to go against the WCO (as indicated in hte original post).
    The WCO was becoming all the rage and still has a large number of teams running it.
    However, everybody modifies over time and what was good yesterday, becomes vulnerable today.
    You have to change with the times and understand how to match up on a particular Sunday.
    That being said, you also have to play within your personnel strengths and your primary scheme.

    What I'm trying to get at is that in a traditional WCO, the passing game is primarily a dink and dunk approach where you make high percentage passes in short yardage.
    The Cover 2 if played correctly puts a lot of bodies in the short part of the field making the seams harder for the QB to find and limited YAC.
    If the offense is playing a lot of dink and dunk passing, you should see a fairly high completion ratio with a fair number of plays being made, but limited scoring due to the need of sustaining high play count drives.

    The vulnerable areas that were identified in a number of earlier posts are when you give them enough time for the receivers to find the soft parts in the zone which are very commonly over the middle between the MLB and safety.
    This is where EJ could really help us right now and I was hopeful that Madieu with his range would also play a big part.


    I've been rewatching the Bears game from Sunday and focusing on both Griffin and Winfield.
    I noticed they are a mirror image of each other in terms of the cushion they give at the line.
    And it does vary from playing them tight to giving up 5-7 yds.
    I did not notice as Marrdro pointed out whether it tipped the LB's intentions.
    What I have noticed through the first half is that they switch from man coverage (which AW got beat twice on in the first half, once for a 9yd pass to Booker and the other for a dropped TD pass to Booker that he should have caught... Cedric in man coverage also got beat by Booker where he had the guy blanketed but lost the battle with Booker for the ball).
    While playing zone, Cedric's side did get picked more often than AW (at least through the first half), and there were a couple completions made on Cedric's side where he had two recievers in his zone that he was covering and he was playing between them and reacting once the ball was in the air.
    The middle of the field was where most of the damage was coming, part of that was due to the time Orton had for the play to develop, his accuracy in putting the ball in tight spots, and our weak MLB play.
    The Bears attacked us pretty much text book on how you beat the cover 2 according to the original post.
    Accurate passing, adequate protection, hit the seam routes and overload the zones.


  8. #28
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Cover 2 disected

    I'd like to point out that we lead the league in Defensive Penalty yards and total penalties.

    I'm not gonna say it.... not gonna say it....



    (I'll also add that we're 6th in the league in Offensive Penalties and 5th in Offensive Penalty yards)...

    [size=2pt]
    FIRE CHILDRESS....[/size]
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  9. #29
    BleedinPandG is offline Coach
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    Re: Cover 2 disected

    "C" wrote:
    I'd like to point out that we lead the league in Defensive Penalty yards and total penalties.

    I'm not gonna say it.... not gonna say it....



    (I'll also add that we're 6th in the league in Offensive Penalties and 5th in Offensive Penalty yards)...

    [size=2pt]
    FIRE CHILDRESS....[/size]
    HA!
    And people say a Childress offense can't move the ball!
    The true measure of a man is what he'd do knowing he'd never be found out.

  10. #30
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: Cover 2 disected

    "tastywaves" wrote:
    I think one of the key points is that the cover 2 was designed primarily to go against the WCO (as indicated in hte original post).
    The WCO was becoming all the rage and still has a large number of teams running it.
    However, everybody modifies over time and what was good yesterday, becomes vulnerable today.
    You have to change with the times and understand how to match up on a particular Sunday.
    That being said, you also have to play within your personnel strengths and your primary scheme.

    What I'm trying to get at is that in a traditional WCO, the passing game is primarily a dink and dunk approach where you make high percentage passes in short yardage.
    The Cover 2 if played correctly puts a lot of bodies in the short part of the field making the seams harder for the QB to find and limited YAC.
    If the offense is playing a lot of dink and dunk passing, you should see a fairly high completion ratio with a fair number of plays being made, but limited scoring due to the need of sustaining high play count drives.

    The vulnerable areas that were identified in a number of earlier posts are when you give them enough time for the receivers to find the soft parts in the zone which are very commonly over the middle between the MLB and safety.
    This is where EJ could really help us right now and I was hopeful that Madieu with his range would also play a big part.


    I've been rewatching the Bears game from Sunday and focusing on both Griffin and Winfield.
    I noticed they are a mirror image of each other in terms of the cushion they give at the line.
    And it does vary from playing them tight to giving up 5-7 yds.
    I did not notice as Marrdro pointed out whether it tipped the LB's intentions.
    What I have noticed through the first half is that they switch from man coverage (which AW got beat twice on in the first half, once for a 9yd pass to Booker and the other for a dropped TD pass to Booker that he should have caught... Cedric in man coverage also got beat by Booker where he had the guy blanketed but lost the battle with Booker for the ball).
    While playing zone, Cedric's side did get picked more often than AW (at least through the first half), and there were a couple completions made on Cedric's side where he had two recievers in his zone that he was covering and he was playing between them and reacting once the ball was in the air.
    The middle of the field was where most of the damage was coming, part of that was due to the time Orton had for the play to develop, his accuracy in putting the ball in tight spots, and our weak MLB play.

    The Bears attacked us pretty much text book on how you beat the cover 2 according to the original post.

    Accurate passing, adequate protection, hit the seam routes and overload the zones.

    Great post and analysis. EJ will be missed.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

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