Thread: Cam Newton is officially ruined.....

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

They are playing him on a terrible team with a new coaching staff and he is only a rookie who is getting thrown to the wolves.

In fact he only passed for 422 yards and 2 TD's in his train wreck of a game that signaled the beginning of his demise. How long before this train wreck of a decision to play him instead of grooming him on the bench comes to a screeching halt? Thank god we aren't that incompetent.

Do I detect a bit of sarcasim in that post.

Anyone who doesn't think Cam is playing above expectations is now fooling themselves.

Is there room for improvement? Hell yes, but damn its fun to watch him sling it around a bit. Gonna be interesting to watch and see what happens down in Jagsville now that "Luke" has turned to the dark side.

Interesting posts. I seem to remember reading that ponder was more NFL ready and that newton needed a few years to develop. Maybe the new staff at carolina is just better at preparing their players than the Vikings.

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

Interesting posts. I seem to remember reading that ponder was more NFL ready and that newton needed a few years to develop. Maybe the new staff at carolina is just better at preparing their players than the Vikings.

I wouldn't argue that last point...

But no, I think physical talent will always give better immediate returns than "NFL REadiness".

Cam has the size, speed and arm to play in the NFL. Ponder doesn't.

Ponder has the smarts to play in the NFL, Cam, well, jury's out on him.

Being smart doesn't make you physically more gifted, but being physically gifted can make up for lack of smarts.

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

Interesting posts. I seem to remember reading that ponder was more NFL ready and that newton needed a few years to develop. Maybe the new staff at carolina is just better at preparing their players than the Vikings.

I think, if you actually read the quotes, you will find the words/terms WCO associated with Ponder being ready.

What Newton is running is nothing of the sort. Major props to the Carolina staff for coming up with a variant of the spread that seems to fit the team. Problem is, and as they discussed on NFLN, it isn't very complex and teams will figure it out pretty quickly.

I kindof chuckled to myself when the vaunted PUKER defense struggled against it this weekend. Most of the talking heads said that the solution would come this weekend.

Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

I wouldn't argue that last point...

But no, I think physical talent will always give better immediate returns than "NFL REadiness".

Cam has the size, speed and arm to play in the NFL. Ponder doesn't.

Ponder has the smarts to play in the NFL, Cam, well, jury's out on him.

Being smart doesn't make you physically more gifted, but being physically gifted can make up for lack of smarts.

Isn't it really the other way around? Been one hell of alot of "Talented" QB's fail in this league cause they weren't smart enough to read a defense.

On a side note, 6'2" 229/lbs isn't really considered small in this league. Aren't you the one who was "Arguing" with me about how a 6'0" 195 lbr was big enough to play in this league.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

Isn't it really the other way around? Been one hell of alot of "Talented" QB's fail in this league cause they weren't smart enough to read a defense.

On a side note, 6'2" 229/lbs isn't really considered small in this league. Aren't you the one who was "Arguing" with me about how a 6'0" 195 lbr was big enough to play in this league.

Yes and no.

In the case of a guy like Newton, Vick, hell, even TJ, the threat of running, combined with a great arm made them appear alot better than they actually are. Eventually, once teams watch the tape on him, study him and learn his tendencies, they'll shut him down.

However, a guy like Ponder, who isn't really that special physically might take a while to get going, but once he does, he's smart enough to disguise his game, learn the reads, make the throws, know what he can and can not get away with in this league. That will however take more time.

As for size, I'm not saying Ponder is too small to play in the league, I'm just saying his size isn't enough to give him an advantage like a guy like say Mallett or Roethlisberger.

Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

Yes and no.

In the case of a guy like Newton, Vick, hell, even TJ, the threat of running, combined with a great arm made them appear alot better than they actually are. Eventually, once teams watch the tape on him, study him and learn his tendencies, they'll shut him down.

However, a guy like Ponder, who isn't really that special physically might take a while to get going, but once he does, he's smart enough to disguise his game, learn the reads, make the throws, know what he can and can not get away with in this league. That will however take more time.

As for size, I'm not saying Ponder is too small to play in the league, I'm just saying his size isn't enough to give him an advantage like a guy like say Mallett or Roethlisberger.

I can agree with all of that, however, lets not forget, that young Ponder isn't considered a slouch when it comes to using his legs in and around the pocket as well as out of it if he has to.

To tell the truth, the only real knock on the kid is whether or not he can make the deep throw. Some say he can because most scouts hold his throws during his injury issues as evidence he can't.

I'm still on the fence as I originally discounted him as a WCO option because of his arm strenght. Again, several have provided stuff that says his arm is fine when healthy and we saw that he can get it down the field in preseason when/if the staff ever makes those calls.

In the end, I'll still take a smart Ponder, all 6'2" of him, with the smarts to read a defense and the brains to throw it to the right guy more times than not than a Physical beast with lots of measurables but not much in the way of smarts.

On a side side note, I think Cam is a heck of alot smarter than some rubes make him out to be. That, along with the specialized offense, is why he has been so successfull.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

I can agree with all of that, however, lets not forget, that young Ponder isn't considered a slouch when it comes to using his legs in and around the pocket as well as out of it if he has to.

No, definitely not, he's got the ability to move around, however, we're seeing that type of talent more and more prevalent in young QB's. However, he doesn't have the elite speed or quickness that a guy like Newton has. Newton is a legitimate threat to cause alot of damage on the ground. Ponder is more a guy who can do something after the pocket breaks down to maybe pick up the first. It's great to have, but not a gamechanger.

To tell the truth, the only real knock on the kid is whether or not he can make the deep throw. Some say he can because most scouts hold his throws during his injury issues as evidence he can't.

I'm still on the fence as I originally discounted him as a WCO option because of his arm strenght. Again, several have provided stuff that says his arm is fine when healthy and we saw that he can get it down the field in preseason when/if the staff ever makes those calls.

In the end, I'll still take a smart Ponder, all 6'2" of him, with the smarts to read a defense and the brains to throw it to the right guy more times than not than a Physical beast with lots of measurables but not much in the way of smarts.

I'd agree. However, if you need a guy to step in day one and play decently, I think the Cam Newtons will start out better than the Ponders (yeah, easier said now that he has... but whatever)

Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

No, definitely not, he's got the ability to move around, however, we're seeing that type of talent more and more prevalent in young QB's. However, he doesn't have the elite speed or quickness that a guy like Newton has. Newton is a legitimate threat to cause alot of damage on the ground. Ponder is more a guy who can do something after the pocket breaks down to maybe pick up the first. It's great to have, but not a gamechanger.

I'd agree. However, if you need a guy to step in day one and play decently, I think the Cam Newtons will start out better than the Ponders (yeah, easier said now that he has... but whatever)

Two things, I like a couple of things....1) my CB to provide pass coverage before they provide run support and 2) my QB to be mobile enough to step up/around pressure in the pocket.

Number 2 doesn't require elite speed. Elite speed only winds up in situations were the Iggles might be in this week.

I agree with you with respect to success but only in that you tailor the offense to the QB. If I was gonna bring a cat in to run our offense, I would put Ponder in long before I would Newton.

Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

I wouldn't argue that last point...

But no, I think physical talent will always give better immediate returns than "NFL REadiness".

Cam has the size, speed and arm to play in the NFL. Ponder doesn't.

Ponder has the smarts to play in the NFL, Cam, well, jury's out on him.

Being smart doesn't make you physically more gifted, but being physically gifted can make up for lack of smarts.

If he doesn't have the speed, size and arm strength to play in the NFL I would sure as hell like to see him play pronto and find out than to wait a year or two and then be 2 more years behind the curve finding our next QB of the future.

Sitting on the bench might benefit a player who cannot comprehend a playbook but holding a clipboard is not going to make his arm stronger, it isn't going to make him run faster and he probably isn't going to go through a growth spurt standing on the sidelines.

If he is smart enough to play then it is time right now to see if his body can do what his mind tells it to and that is only going to happen in a live game situation.