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  1. #1
    Zeus's Avatar
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    The backwards pass

    Can someone explain to me why, when a QB is hit while in the act of throwing the ball AND THE BALL GOES BACKWARDS this is not a lateral which can be recovered by the defense?


    The refs are always so concerned about calling it not a fumble that they forget the the whole "forward pass" aspect of an incompletion.


    A major pet peeve of mine.
    I scream that at the TV two or three times a weekend.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  2. #2
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    Re: The backwards pass

    I think the whole forward pass terminology needs to be reworked anyway.
    it obviously has some glaring holes, including the one you pointed out.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  3. #3
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The backwards pass

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    I think the whole forward pass terminology needs to be reworked anyway.
    it obviously has some glaring holes, including the one you pointed out.
    The call on Sunday was HORRIBLE when Delhomme obviously fumbled the ball and they called it a forward pass. I agree that the terminology needs to be re-worked.

  4. #4
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    Re: The backwards pass

    Simply because they need a black and white rule.
    If you make it to much of a judgement call on the refs part it opens up a big grea area in your rule book.

    If the arm is moving forward takes away alot of the judgement on the refs part and , while it has it's holes, takes away the grey area.

  5. #5
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    Re: The backwards pass

    But this is why they are considered professional referees. They are suppose to be able to determine what is a fumble is and what is not. That is why there should always be a grey area on this. The Vikings nearly got screwed against Carolina based on the stupid "arm was coming forward." You could clearly see Delhomme was trying to bring the ball around the head of defender and tuck it back into his body. Even if the call was wrong on the field, the review obviously had shown that the ball wasn't moved in a forward passing motion.
    "Show me a good and gracious loser and I'll show you a failure."
    - Knute Rockne

  6. #6
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: The backwards pass

    First, they are not considered profesional referees.
    They are the only part time officials in any US Professional Sport.
    But that is another topic for another time...

    The biggest problem I have with this is that the ref made the correct call based on the replay.
    Granted, I am not an expert, and what I am saying here is just reiterated from what I have heard in the media, but according to the letter of the law, that was an incomplete pass.
    The rule doesn't care why his arm was moving forward.
    The rule has good intentions, but it is flawed and needs to be reworked.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #7
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: The backwards pass

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    First, they are not considered profesional referees.
    They are the only part time officials in any US Professional Sport.
    But that is another topic for another time...

    The biggest problem I have with this is that the ref made the correct call based on the replay.
    Granted, I am not an expert, and what I am saying here is just reiterated from what I have heard in the media, but according to the letter of the law, that was an incomplete pass.
    The rule doesn't care why his arm was moving forward.
    The rule has good intentions, but it is flawed and needs to be reworked.
    Yeah - but I didn't start this thread to talk about the "tuck rule".
    I started it to bitch and whine about why those "it was an incomplete pass" rulings never consider that, if it wasn't a fumble but the ball went backwards, why it isn't a lateral and a free ball.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  8. #8
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: The backwards pass

    It's a conspiracy.


    Filler to meet 20 character minimum.

  9. #9
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    Re: The backwards pass

    If the arm is moving forward when the ball comes out, it is deemed an incomplete forward pass regardless of which direction the ball goes when it comes out.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #10
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    Re: The backwards pass

    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    First, they are not considered profesional referees.
    They are the only part time officials in any US Professional Sport.
    But that is another topic for another time...

    The biggest problem I have with this is that the ref made the correct call based on the replay.
    Granted, I am not an expert, and what I am saying here is just reiterated from what I have heard in the media, but according to the letter of the law, that was an incomplete pass.
    The rule doesn't care why his arm was moving forward.
    The rule has good intentions, but it is flawed and needs to be reworked.
    I'm glad you started this thread because I feel the same way. And get this; earlier in the game Brad Johnson was called for intentional grounding when Peppers was in the process of tackling him, and with his hand going forward the ball came out ,and hit the ground.Sounds like the literal definition of the tuck rule to me.
    And what about spiking the ball? Isn't that the most aggregious act of intentional grounding there is? In the old days you had to throw it out of bounds over the ends head, and if it looked too intentional it was called intentional grounding.
    The point I'm trying to make is ; many of these rules were made to take referee judgement out of the decision. But today with instant replay they seem to have rules that inhibit them from making the right decision.
    I watch the head official on NFL total access explain the previous weeks controversial calls and it appears there are rules to simply cover the refs ass.
    Someone will disagree and ask for an example so here are two.
    This week they reviewed a pass caught near the sideline with little time on the clock.The offense needed to score to win. The defensive back hit the receiver who went out of bounds. The official on the field kept the clock running.
    The explanation for keeping the clock running was the receiver was driven out of bounds behind where the ball was caught so forward progress would give the ball to the receiver a yard or so forward of where he was knocked out of bounds.They said they would have stopped the clock if the receiver had run out of bounds on his own. Well the receiver caught the ball right next to the out of bounds marker and was hit almost immediately.Unfortanately he was driven backwards out of bounds.
    The second example is a case where a ref blew the whistle too soon on a fumble by the Buffalo quarterback. I'm not going to type it out because it will just bore you.

    But it appears the officials have enough rules in place to make the wrong decision even when replay shows otherwise.

    And it appears they have essentially put red dresses on all quarterbacks.

    End of rant, this time!


    Yeah - but I didn't start this thread to talk about the "tuck rule".
    I started it to bitch and whine about why those "it was an incomplete pass" rulings never consider that, if it wasn't a fumble but the ball went backwards, why it isn't a lateral and a free ball.

    =Z=
    Well I had to mention the tuck rule a little.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

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